Disparity Of Force

[mbt2001]

I think that the position of the law is did the person BELIEVE that they were in danger of grievous injury / death and is that belief correspondent to what a REASONABLE MAN would believe?

Sure, there are situation where shooting an un-armed "assailant" will land you in jail. There are others where shooting an unarmed assailant will result in no charges, no arrest, no nothing.

In this day and age, PCP and other drugs exist, those assailants are EXTREMELY VOLATILE AND DANGEROUS.

Fortunately, also, the burden of PROOF OF GUILT is on the prosecution. Also another +1 for our system in general.

 

[GregGry]

(((Your fears, your state of mind, and to what extent those were reasonable are very relevant to a self defense shooting situation. Remember, in order to use force against another, you must be in reasonable fear that the same level of force will imminently and unlawfully be used against you.))))

Yes they are but if your fears aren't based on facts you are in trouble. I know people that are afraid for their life if they are surrounded by people such in a crowd. If they were to shoot on the basis of this fear is that reasonable? Your average person would say no. Being afraid for your life and actually being in a substantial danger of death or great bodily harm are two completely different things. You can't pull the trigger just based on your fears, there has to be other things you base your decision on. On the job I have fear everytime I go into a bar for a fight, a robbery in progress, etc. That fear doesn't mean I can just shoot someone.

You can pull the tigger any time you feel your life is in danger after all it doesn't take anything to pull a trigger. Unfortunately you will eventually hit a scenario where your fear for your life doesn't go along with the actual danger you were in. Thats when you are in serious trouble.

((In this day and age, PCP and other drugs exist, those assailants are EXTREMELY VOLATILE AND DANGEROUS. )) Yes they are, however its hard to know thats what they are on. Not to mention you can't pull the trigger on someone that is on drugs just because they are a potential threat.

 

[divemedic]

Which is why I said:

Remember, in order to use force against another, you must be in reasonable fear that the same level of force will imminently and unlawfully be used against you.

 

[Biker]

Seems like some folks just want to pull a trigger. Killing a man is easy, the after effects are monumental. Putting aside the legal issues, living with it can be taxing for some.

Y'all might consider that being forced to trade blows and maybe coming out with a bloody lip is preferable to taking a life.

Just a thought.

Biker

 

[mercop]

The example I always use is the one I saw in Calibre Presses Street Survival Seminar years ago. And officer was attacked by and EDP Emotionally Disturbed Person. The EDP bit a huge chunk out of the officers face and the officer shot him. Was it a good shoot, yes. What if the guy had bitten him in the side of the neck next?

Deadly force is most often defined as the use or presentation of capability of force likely to cause serious deformation, physical injury and/or death.

As with anything when it comes to the use of force the totality of circumstances is what matters.

As a police officer I saw plenty of people who had no business being on the job and at the first sign of danger would go to gun and shake it all about because they had not other skill sets. I have to believe that the same would hold true for the armed citizen. If the only SD "tool" you have is a pistol you are more likely to use it when you get scared. That is why a well rounded SD program has got to include training in open hand combatives, edged weapons and impact weapons.

 

[Biker]

mercop said:

"As a police officer I saw plenty of people who had no business being on the job and at the first sign of danger would go to gun and shake it all about because they had not other skill sets. I have to believe that the same would hold true for the armed citizen. If the only SD "tool" you have is a pistol you are more likely to use it when you get scared. That is why a well rounded SD program has got to include training in open hand combatives, edged weapons and impact weapons."



Right on the money.

Biker

 

[divemedic]

Well, I am going to the store. I guess I will go get my gun, three spare mags, BUG, ASP Baton, combat knife, and OC spray.

Seriously, I am not going shopping in a combat zone, nor am I a LEO. Maybe I could learn to avoid minor troubles, and reserve the weapons for life threatening situations. Remember folks, we are not free lance police officers.

 

[mercop]

Having your name on a police report whether it is in the victim or suspect box will likely have a deep impact on your life and your loved ones. Avoidance is key. When you cannot avoid, come violent or don't come.

 

[px4storm]

I can't quite understand why I don't see articles in the newspapers and on the news about hundreds or even thousands of shootings by CHL holders claiming self defense!

Those of us who carry for SD are not stupid, guncarrying hicks! We have read and understand the laws and are competent law abiding citizens. The last thing in the world that I would ever "want" to do is to shoot someone but if it came down to it and I felt my life or the life of a loved one was threatened then I am certainly prepared to act.

For those of you who make statements like, "you can't shoot someone because they are yelling at you," I only want to say one thing . . . "no joke!" I have just read 5 pages of posts on this thread and the condescension from some folks is amazing. If you want to let some guy beat the tar out of you before you act then so be it. I will not treat you like an idiot for that because it is a personal choice and I don't expect to be treated like that for making my lawful choice either.

If I read the paper everyday and saw multiple unjustified self defense shootings then I might agree but I just don't see it. I don't believe for a moment that there are law abiding citizens out there carrying their gun for SD that are just "itching" to shoot someone.

Because I know that many of you like to push everything to the extreme, please don't post 1 article where a SD shooting was unjustified. If you don't understand why, then you haven't read my post. Quit the condescension!

 

[Art Eatman]

Enuf. Five pages, and we're seeing the usual personal stuff creep in...