Do Bullets Cause Wildfires?

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camslam

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Apparently not. A local sheriff in Utah County (Utah) tested that theory because of the blame put on shooters for several fires this summer. I thought some of you might find this interesting.



Experiment: Bullets don't start blaze
A steel file on a Lake Mountain rock sparks easily. And Utah County Sheriff Jim Tracy could produce sparks by smacking rocks together.

But at the county shooting range at Thistle on Monday, no one could start a fire with a bullet shot from a gun. Even a pure copper bullet heated to 500 degrees and dropped into dry cheatgrass didn't work.

Nor did molten lead poured over the crispy stalks.

The informal experiments were conducted by Tracy, who was trying to find out whether wildfires can be started by shooters via ricochet, hot lead or ejected muzzle residue.

For an hour on Monday, county Rangemaster Owen Shiverdecker hammered away with a variety of weaponry -- .223- and .308-caliber rifles, among others -- and a variety of bullets, to see if any combination would start a fire.

County commissioners, at the urging of fire officials, renewed a ban last week on fireworks, open fires and shooting on unincorporated county land. Shooting was included because some officials have expressed concern that bullets pose a fire hazard. Many shooters are skeptical.

So Tracy headed to the range, along with an entourage of experts. At Thistle, bomb experts, a handful of deputies and a fire crew for safety -- fully decked out in the hot summer sun -- congregated to test some theories.

The afternoon started with an elementary ballistics lesson. Lead and copper bullets aren't going to spark, they're just too soft. But there is plenty of cheap ammunition on the market that employs steel-jacketed bullets with a copper wash. It's usually Russian-made stuff that you buy by the thousand, Tracy said. It's not hardened steel but it is ferrous, which makes it more likely to spark than lead.

A Chinese-made SKS rifle is plenty loud, even when muffled through required ear protection. Shiverdecker squeezed off a few 7.62mm x 39 rounds, and several yards downrange rock chips and cheat grass were blasted from a cardboard box that will never again hold Federal-brand ammunition.

At the first sign of smoke, eyebrows shot up. That was easy. Bullets do start fires.

Upon further inspection, however, the "smoke" turned out to be dust from pulverized rock. The rock was a sample from Lake Mountain, a popular shooting area that was most recently on fire at the end of June.

But actual flames, which have cost the county a cool million to fight this year, remained elusive.

Before the shooting started, lead was melted and dumped straight onto cheat grass. With a melting point of more than 600 degrees, the best it could do was smolder and smoke for a bit before going cold. A pure copper bullet was then heated to roughly 500 degrees and dropped into the grass. That too produced scorching, but again no fire.

Would a breeze or denser grass or a less humid day have produced a flame? Maybe. Or maybe not. The test was inconclusive.

Tracy thought a hot bullet could start a fire under the right conditions -- and the phrase "under the right conditions" became the mantra of the afternoon.

Under the right conditions, burning powder residue from a cartridge could leap 15 feet and start a fire, Tracy said. He demonstrated how a little pile of unburned residue gathered from a water tank at a gun-testing facility and dried out again was still plenty flammable.

He lit it with an electric igniter and it flamed away.

But no bullet started a fire at Thistle on Monday.

While Shiverdecker did his best to simulate a typical shooter (including having his SKS jam twice), the experiments may not have been sufficiently well designed or extensive to reach a general scientific conclusion -- a conclusion that would cover hundreds of shooters firing dozens of types of guns loaded with dozens of kinds of ammunition flying at dozens of kinds of targets.

Under the right conditions and given the sheer number of variables, Tracy said, the probability would rise that a shooter could start a fire.

"If you've got sparking material, the variables are going to stack up against you," he said.

Fire officials believe the right conditions have come together at least seven times this year, resulting in more than a million dollars in firefighting costs. They don't offer hard evidence to back up that claim. Skeptics wonder whether anecdotal evidence gathered from shooters -- even those who reported starting a fire -- might be tainted by a desire to cover up a dropped cigarette, illegal ammunition or negligence.

But even anecdotal evidence is not necessarily available. A fire investigator with the U.S. Bureau of Land Management told the Herald earlier that the cause of a range fire may be assigned to shooters if no other cause can be established.

On Friday, Tracy told the Herald that he would make a recommendation on the shooting ban to the County Commission based on the outcome of his testing at Thistle. "The result will be the result," he said.

But on Monday, he seemed less enthusiastic, allowing that he doesn't want to see the shooting restrictions in place any longer than necessary.

Asked directly whether he really believed that bullets started seven fires this year, Tracy paused thoughtfully. Then he said that he trusted the fire investigators.
 
I can see if you're concealed in dry grass and fire your weapon, the hot gasses/sparks propelled from the muzzle might start the grass on fire, or using tracers/incindiery rounds, but who hunts with them?
 
Guns don't cause fires...but smoking hunters do.
Cigarettes cause very few fires...smokers start many.

We put "smoking" down in a lot of fire reports. However, most of the time it's the matches that cause the fires or smokers who decide to light some leaf litter on fire.

Cigarettes require pretty bad fire weather before they'll start a fire in pine straw.
Relative humidities below 25%, surface winds of 10mph or more, and very low fine fuel moistures.
Riccocheting bullets would require the same weather.
 
i dont see how they could unless they where tracers or some of the sort. lead or copper doesnt cause sparks. and who would shoot up there steel targets with steel penetrators?! lol i dont even think that would cause a spark big enough to cause a fire.

i think i read either on here or xdtalk about a fellow asking this same question and someone chimmed in from Cali that said him and his buddy where shooting cans or something during very dry conditions (when isnt it fire season in cali?) with a 30'06 at close range and a bush or something behind the targets they where shooting caught fire. (something to that effect)

i would blame about 90% of forest fires smoking motorist that flick lit cigs out the windows while they drive (sorry smokers i know you all dont flick your cigs out but ALOT do)
 
who would shoot up there steel targets with steel penetrators?!

You need to watch the news more often. There is no shortage of stupidity in the shooting community or anywhere else.
 
lol just seems a waste of a good target to me :) i think i would drag a piece of junk steel out there and shoot that up before i shot up a $40 reusable target lol (not sure if this is what they run)
 
One of the things that bugs me the most is when ranges say "no steel core" but all around their steel plate targets is grass or bushes! :banghead:

It would also help if shooters would shoot targets on the range, I saw one guy aiming in a strange direction once at the range. I asked him where he was shooting and he said at the rocks. Theses rocks were on the hillside of the range up in the bushes. I told him that if he starts a fire and the range gets closed he will have himself to thank for it.:cuss:
 
i would blame about 90% of forest fires smoking motorist

Around here, lightning starts the vast majority of wildfires.

But then there are also the other occasional ignitions, such as:

overheated farm equipment
somebody welding, grinding, etc
intrinsic vehicle or structure fire
smoking, campfires, etc
(un)controlled burning
vehicles driving on flat tires, or dragging something down the road

Never heard of shooting causing a fire, except maybe black powder...? (burning patches)

Last but not unknown is deliberate arson :(
You pull that around here and you better dang well hope the law catches you before the rest of us do ;)
 
We usually have dozens of wildfires each summer. Each one is attributed to lightning unless it is within a mile of a shooting range, then it is the shooters.
 
Tracers do. Ask me how I know.

Wild fire on the Boise foothills in the Tablerock area bout 10, 15 years ago was started on accident by an off duty police officer firing tracer ammo.

Regular ammo though I agree with the testing, probably not gonna happen.
 
Uhh, I started a fire once with my Mosin Nagant. Steel core ammo, rocks, and dry grass.

Yes, you can start a fire with the right (or wrong) ammunition.

Try shooting steel core ammo at distant rocks at night. The sparkler show is quite neat.


c2k
 
Sheriff Jim Tracy needs a guest spot on Mythbusters! It's a nice little experiment. Obviously, there are types of bullets that can cause sparks or ignite dry grass. A gyro pistol for example. But there's no reason to ban all ammo when steel core and tracers are the real threat.
 
Not a grass fire but ...

I was at an indoor range. The targets were held by a big steel wedge that almost came down to the top of a B-27 silhouette head. I was firing with my nondominant hand for practice and trying a head shot. FMJ - 9mm - it hit the lower edge of the wedge and something zipped down the target and cut it in half at the diagonal and set the remaining part of the B-27 on fire.

The dude in the next lane asked what kind of round was that - the ultimate stopper. Cuts you in half and set you on fire.
 
I'm just glad a sheriff was actually willing to do the work regarding bullets/guns rather than taking the usual approach of assuming and condemning.

We gun owners get enough garbage sent our way, as mentioned most of the fires in this area have been blamed on shooters, resulting in a prohibition of shooting for most of this summer. It was nice to see an article that didn't paint us in an even worse light.
 
One of the things that bugs me the most is when ranges say "no steel core" but all around their steel plate targets is grass or bushes!
That is because they don't want damage or holes in thier targets, and because steel ricochets more because it keeps its shape while lead deforms and wastes a lot of its energy in deforming on contact. So steel can change directions and still retain a lot more energy. That means it bounces with more force and more energy at greater angles (posing a greater threat to unintended targets). It usualy has nothing to do with the greater sparks. It is still not solid steel though because that would damage the rifling of the steel barrel, and being surrounded with lead limits its ability to spark much. So it has little to do with fire danger.

Steel however is cheaper and is actualy better for war because it penetrates better and everyone is wearing armor and has cover (and bullet expansion is outlawed anyways). So many foriegn ammo manufacters produce inexpensive steel (actualy iron much of the time) core military rounds. That means you can find better deals on such ammo, it is both cheaper to make, and military surplus.

Tracers do start fires and the only time anyone should use them is directly after (or during rain, or in the snow or out in all sand desert with no small brush.
 
A tracer can be especially dangerous if the shooter shoots it at an arc to "show off" the tracer better. (for example, on private land) One tracer will light up a dry cornfield like its tissue paper. And the added problem is the fire usually starts FAR away, and by the time you see the smoke and fire.... its BIG.

Make sure you have a big back stop with tracers, and shoot LOW.
 
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