Do I suck at shooting?

[CmdrSlander]

With the following setup what level of accuracy can I expect, give me in terms of group size, in inches. I'm trying to determine if I suck, or if it is the equipment holding me back.

Stevens 200, unmodified
Bushnell 3x9x40 scope that is mounted too high
6 pound trigger
Hornady Steel Match .223 55 grain
Range 75 yards and 50 yards
conditions: cold and humid
Firing from Hornady non-padded plastic rest (provided by range) rear of gun not on any type of rest

Groups I am getting now:

1 inch 3-4 shot groups at 50 yards with crappy russian ammo, some flyers
2.5 inch 3 shot groups at 75 yards with hornady steel match 55 grain, lots of flyers

So, do I need to find a new hobby?

 

[jakk280rem]

No you're fine. keep working at it. its a fine rifle.

as with all hobbies, you need to spend some money to progress sometimes.

a better trigger, a better scope mounted as low to the bore as possible, and better ammo, as well as some more trigger time and you will halve, or more, your groups.

 

[snakeman]

Okay, first thing support the rear of the gun. Use sandbags or a led sled or something similar. Next take your gun to a smith and have the trigger properly tuned. Next, consider switching to a brass case ammo as the brass does a better job of expanding to seal the chamber. Next, bring that scope down as far as you can get it without it touching the gun anywhere. Lastly practice practice practice. Don't give up yet you'll get there. As a side note it is always good to have a gun properly glass bedded in the recoil lug area while its at the smith.

 

[CmdrSlander]

So...

Are my groups poor or simply average?

Edit: Also, there is no way a Led-Sled or something like it is in my budget right now, will some run of the mill sandbags for the stock and forearm work?

 

[UpTheIrons]

For your setup, they are fine. With the gun wiggling because of an unsupported rear and your cheek not properly welded to the stock because the scope is too high, this is probably the best you can do.

Follow the sage wisdom of those who have already spoken, and you'll see much better groups very soon.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

I don't think you suck, you could be doing much worse. There are probably several 'grimlins' working together to produce your results.

The first thing that stands out to me is your trigger. 6lbs is pretty heavy for a target trigger. Add in some creep, and it will be very hard to get maximum accuracy out of your rifle. Look into some modifications to bring the trigger weight down. The Bushnell scopes (from what I've looked through at the range) are pretty nice, and shouldn't be an issue. One thing about the scope that may be influencing your groups are the scope rings. Low quality scope rings can allow the scope to shift due to recoil, changing your point of aim every shot.

Another thing, using a hard plastic rest is not necessarily the way to go about maximum accuracy. From what I've heard, the best resting method is a soft sandbag or something similar. Also, using a rest for the rear of the rifle will help you groups as well. If you don't have access to rear bag, use your fist (this works for me pretty well).

Ammo is another consideration. In most cases, some guns just "don't like" certain types of ammo. Try a few different brands, weights, and bullet types. Then you will have a better idea of what your rifle likes best.

Finally, check your shooting technique. Are you following the steps for a good shot? (Ex: Sight alignment -> sight picture -> respiratory pause -> trigger squeeze -> followthrough) Be sure your are relaxed, and caffeine - free, this may help as well.

Here is a thread with some groups shot with various Stevens 200's: http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?topic=199773.0
One poster mentioned filing the burs off of the trigger mechanism. Perhaps that will help you.

If you haven't been shooting for long, don't quit yet! Shooting takes practice. Maybe consider a Savage or CZ .22lr rifle for cheaper practice if .223 is a little spendy.

Good luck! Hope this helped,

- TNG

Edit: Sorry if this is an echo of what has been posted. When I saw your OP, nobody had posted so I figured I'd cover all the bases. Your groups are ok, but there is definitely room for improvement!

 

[CmdrSlander]

Shooting experience: I've got a rimfire rifle, and I am a fairly experienced shooter with handguns, rifles are troublesome because the range is far away so I can't go very often.

 

[snakeman]

Your groups are probably about average for people who don't shoot very much or aren't seasoned shooters. Just run of the mill sandbags are fine as long as the front and rear of the gun are supported in a way that allows you to stay on target without holding up any part of the gun.

 

[jakk280rem]

Agree with above. if i had the rifle and wanted to shoot smaller groups, i would do the following as my budget allowed in order:

1. buy a set of low rings.
2. ensure the barrel is floating
3. shoot the box and make sure my scope was parallax free at the ranges i was shooting
4. trigger job/new trigger
5. new stiffer heavier stock floated and bedded
6. a higher quality higher magnification scope with an adjustable objective. 4-12 or 4-16. but still x40 or 42

 

[LoonWulf]

Thats not bad shooting, If your benching it id suggest buying yourself a 5lb bag of rice and filling a couple socks. Those make great bench bags, i toss my front one on my ammo can and the rear right on the table. With that set up in can generally hold 1/2moa consistently, and im not the greatest shooter, bench or otherwise.

 

[Geno]

In all, not bad. That you have a 6 pound trigger makes accuracy more difficult. Others have already mentioned additional factors such as a good rest. In the end, there is no substitute for all factors coming together, including time to practice. Kudos, you're on your way!

Geno

 

[madcratebuilder]

Good results with what you have. I would make up some sand bags, a old sock filled with rice well work. Support both fore-end and butt stock. Use quality ammo. A lighter trigger pull with no creep. You should be seeing near sub moa.

 

[HM2PAC]

You may want to look into some instruction. All of the answers you have received are spot on, I would add that a basic marksmanship course such as "Appleseed" would add to your knowledge.

After you have mastered the basics with a .22LR, your shooting with a centerfire will improve drastically.

 

[Eb1]

try this.

1) Make some shooting bags using tape, rice, plastic bags, old jeans that you cut the legs out of. Use rice and ziplock bags. Tape them up with duck tape, and put them into a leg of some old blue jeans, and sew the ends up.

2) put the forearm of the stock on one bag (not the barrel). Then let the butt stock rest on the 2nd bag of rice you made.

3) If you can, lower the scope. I like the Talley base/ring combos. They are not expensive.

4) Your scope choice is fine. Just make sure you see the entire circle of the scope. There should not be any wobble from the x-hairs. Also there shouldn't be any black in the scope. Make sure it is level, and the eye relief is proper.

5) Shoot some Black Hills 55 grain soft points. This has been the best .223 ammo I have shot that I did not hand-load.

Also you might need to practice the basics.

Breath, Relax, Aim, Squeeze, Shot.

B.R.A.S.S. Method of Shooting

The acronym B.R.A.S.S. stands for:
B – BREATH or breath control
R – RELAX. When muscles are tight, they twitch
A – AIM. Get the proper sight picture
S – SQUEEZE. Press the trigger straight back using slow, steady pressure
S – SHOT

Good luck.

 

[BSA1]

You can only shoot as well as your equipment and ammunition will let you.

I have a Ruger M77 All Weather rifle in 270 with a Weaver 6x fixed power scope on it. The only things I have done to it is a trigger job and firelap the barrel. I don't know if firelapping was worth the trouble as I did not measure any groups before firelapping it.

With my reloads this gun will consistently shoot 1/2" at 100 yards. You do not need a lot or expensive equipment to get good groups. As I recall I paid all of $75.00 when I brought it 15 years ago. I have a varible power scope sitting unused on the shelf because of the excellent results the Weaver gives me.

If it was my gun I would;

First remount the scope with proper rings. This will let you keep your cheek on the stock.

Action job. Since my rifles are cold weather hunting guns I like 4 pound trigger. It is more forgiving when my hands are cold or wearing gloves. The most important thing is a crisp, clean break.

Next up is get some good quality ammunition. Reloading saves a lot of money while ensuring quality control.

Finally get some trigger time. I bet you will be pleasantly your results with these three simple steps.

 

[Eb1]

Trigger doesn't really matter. If you do all the steps right, and keep continuous pull the gun will go bang.

 

[snakeman]

The trigger doesn't make the gun shoot better but it helps the shooter to do so and reduces the chance for error.

 

[BrocLuno]

You don't suck, you are just starting up the hill. Learning as you go. It's a nice hill to climb and as you get better, you'll know nearly right away

 

[Damon555]

I agree with the above posts about the ammo, trigger, scope mount and rest.

Your choice of ammo, although adequate, isn't exactly the best choice for shooting tiny groups. Don't expect much from steel cased ammo even if it does have the word "match" in it's name.

You'd be surprised how much difference a nice trigger can make in your groups. It won't help the gun shoot any better but it will allow you to shoot better.

And as mentioned above, get some rings that put the scope as close to the barrel as you can get it without touching it.

I've used many different things for a rest while shooting or hunting but I've found that a rear bag under the stock makes a world of difference. Something as simple as a sock filled with rice or sand will work just fine.

With practice and a decent setup I'd be willing to bet you could easily shrink your groups by half.

 

[jpwilly]

Um, I'm not going to agree with everyone else.

I cannot say for sure where the problems is but that isn't good performance from your gear / ammo. Something isn't right.

You mentioned your groups but then "lots of flyers" as well. To me it sounds like a scope base or ring is loose.

A bolt action rifle shooting at 50yrds should put the bullets into virtually the same hole. I have old milsurps that shoot better with old ammo...something is broken IMO and I'm not saying you suck.

 

[morcey2]

The two biggest changes I've made in terms of accuracy have been the rest and the trigger. I have a Caldwell rest with a hard plastic saddle on the front. Once I put a small beanbag on top of it, my groups shrunk dramatically. I replaced the triggers on my main hunting rifles, 2 mausers and a 1903, with Bolds and a Timney, respectively. That made a huge difference also. The Springfield is a near MOA rifle with the right loads.

On a related note, I have a very minor astigmatism in my right eye. I started wearing contacts when shooting with iron sights and went from shooting 6-8" groups to 2" groups with my 1903 (different from previously mentioned). When I got my eyes checked for the first time in my life a few months ago, I was talking shooting and hunting with the Dr. At the end of the appointment, we talked about the astigmatism and whether I needed lenses or not. He said my vision was probably better than most of his patients after their's was corrected. Then he asked if I shot with iron sight much. He then said that iron sights would be one of the few areas that contacts would give me a noticeable improvement, which it did.

Matt

 

[jakk280rem]

I think his flyers could be chalked up to several factors. his lack of proper cheekweld, lack of rear rest, and the relatively short distance he is shooting. his scope may not be parallax free at that range. combined with the cheekweld issue, exaserbates the flyers.

 

[Eb1]

Flyers are also caused by puttimg the barrel on a hard plastic rest. If in fact that is how he is shooting.

 

[jpwilly]

He didn't say he was resting his barrel on the hard plastic for sure. This is like a game of clue. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he would put the forend of the stock on the rest

Parallax at that distance could account for 1/2" maybe and thats a worse case senario.

We're really only guessing we need to see some video of this mess.

 

[wolf695]

Your fine, you may need to fine tune your scope to your eye sight. Otherwise your doing better good, shooting is a skill! practice makes perfect! Ammo as little to do with it,but a steady hand and good eye sight are the key! Most people have shell shock if they aren't used to a curtain gun, they get scared of the recoil and the noise! With time everyone can overcome this. Keep it up, don't quit!