Do lever action rifles jam if held at an angle or upside down?

[conhntr]

So if i get knocked down by a bear and have to cycle the 1895 rolling over trying to turn back towards said bear im going to have a jam?

 

[azyogi]

I like the fact that I can turn my puma upside down and empty the magazine without chambering a round. I don't have the cross bolt safety of newer guns and don't miss it.

 

[Tommygunn]

when the zombie hoards come
and you're hanging by your knees
from the flying trapeze,
you'll be wishing you had a '73!

lol!

 

[Maverick223]

FWIW (essentially zero value), the Winchester 1895 appears to cycle reliably upside down. (Using 150gr FMJBT's in .30-06)

I ran a few rounds through mine (a Browning copy) and that is what I found as well. FWIW, I was using Fed. PP 150gr. from WW. It seemed to perform equally well at all angles.

 

[GunnyHighway]

Many will operate up side down taken they have a positive ejector On the other hand i dont look for upside down lever gun shooting at camp perry any time soon

 

[Sunray]

"...on my back on in defensive position..." That isn't a defensive position unless you're defending your virtue.
"...Cycling the action upside down..." Whatever for? Can you shoot upside down? You're over complicating the whole thing.
"...Lever guns aren't military guns..." Not now, but they were in the 19th Century.

 

[Greg Koziol]

I have a marlin 1895 in .45-70.. which are the biggest lever action you can probably buy, unless you get a custom 45-90 which is only slightly longer case. It will only jame if you cycle it slow, in other words if you pause with the lever open.

 

[Cypress]

Some Marlin's have issues with jamming if you do not work the lever fast enough to bounce the round into the chamber. My 1895G chewed the nose off bullets for a while because the bottom edge was hanging as it entered the chamber. I called Marlin and they said it was user error. I have since worked on the lever a little and it works great. It's a design flaw if you ask me. Fairly easy to fix though. When buying now I check to see if the carrier is coming up high enough to offer a straight shot into the chamber.

 

[Jason_W]

Anyone know if any military ever adopted a lever gun in widespread use?

They were never adopted by the US military, but one of the contributing factors to Custer's big defeat was the fact that the native tribes were armed with Winchester repeaters that delivered more firepower than the Springfields used by the Army. Of course, hubris and major tactical blunders also had a hand in the outcome.

Also, if you think about it, westward expansion after the civil war was kind of one big war. There were numerous skirmishes with native Americans, feuds, land disputes, range wars, and problems with vicious outlaws. The Winchester repeating rifle was used extensively throughout, so I'm guessing it must have made a decent battle rifle, or it never would have been so popular.

 

[21]

The savage 99 will work at any angle, including upside down, as has been stated, and is a controlled round feed lever action. Which is why its the best lever action, period, among other reasons.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

If you load only the correct cartridges, the Winchester 1873 is more reliable than a Marlin or a Winchester 1892.

IF you load a .44-40 cartridge in a .38-40 Winchester 1873, you have to disassemble the gun to clear the jam.

With a Marlin in .38-40, it is simple to eject a .44-40 cartridge when it fails to chamber.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

IIRC (it's been awhile), the Indian tribes that fought Custer had mixed arms: about a third had repeaters, about a third had single shots (same as the cavalry), and a third had bows and arrows.

 

[Maverick223]

[Lever rifles] were never adopted by the US military...

Wrong, the Winchester 1895 chambered for the .30-40Krag (M1895, caliber .30Govt. military designation) was adopted by the US Army prior to the Spanish-American war and used during the conflict. They were issued in relatively small numbers (numbering only in the tens of thousands) and had a limited service life (only a few years IIRC), but they were adopted and from all accounts served the riflemen well. This was the rifle used by Theodore Roosevelt and his "Rough Riders" and later became his chosen "lion medicine" (chambered for the .405Win.).

 

[Jason_W]

Wrong, the Winchester 1895 chambered for the .30-40Krag (M1895, caliber .30Govt. military designation) was adopted by the US Army prior to the Spanish-American war and used during the conflict. They were issued in relatively small numbers (numbering only in the tens of thousands) and had a limited service life (only a few years IIRC), but they were adopted and from all accounts served the riflemen well. This was the rifle used by Theodore Roosevelt and his "Rough Riders" and later became his chosen "lion medicine" (chambered for the .405Win.).

Interesting. I didn't know that.

Wasn't it experiences during the Spanish American war (US troops coming up against the 7x57 mm) that got us working on a speedy, pointy round of our own?

 

[Greg Koziol]

Some Marlin's have issues with jamming if you do not work the lever fast enough to bounce the round into the chamber. My 1895G chewed the nose off bullets for a while because the bottom edge was hanging as it entered the chamber. I called Marlin and they said it was user error. I have since worked on the lever a little and it works great. It's a design flaw if you ask me. Fairly easy to fix though. When buying now I check to see if the carrier is coming up high enough to offer a straight shot into the chamber.

I'll second his experiences with jamming

 

[Guncollector1982]

plus as for injun fighting there is a trade off for distance versus speed of firing the 44-40 is by far not a distance caliber where as the 45/70 does carry quite well. One reason custer got overran was the copper cartridges that jammed repeatedly with heat and i dont think it would have mattered what he had the end result would have prob been the same he was basically caught in the open. The single shot buffalo guns held off the attackers at Adobe Wells quite well. Though Winchesters were used all over the west i dont believe everyone had one because of the expense they were even then its my opinion that a good part of the western population carried single shots for i have seen as many of those turn up as lever guns perhaps.

 

[Jason_W]

IIRC (it's been awhile), the Indian tribes that fought Custer had mixed arms: about a third had repeaters, about a third had single shots (same as the cavalry), and a third had bows and arrows.

Sorry to get off topic, but this is interesting stuff.

Turns out I oversimplified things with my earlier statement. Here's an interesting article I found regarding the weapons used at Little big Horn. http://www.historynet.com/battle-of-little-bighorn-were-the-weapons-the-deciding-factor.htm/2

I think the most telling quote of is this one:

"What, then, was the reason that the soldiers made such a poor showing during the West's most famous Army-Indian battle? While Custer's immediate command of 210 men was wiped out and more than 250 troopers and scouts were killed in the fighting on June 25-26, the Indians lost only about 40 or 50 men. The explanation appears to lie in the fact that weapons are no better than the men who use them. Marksmanship training in the frontier Army prior to the 1880s was almost nil. An Army officer recalled the 1870s with nostalgia. 'Those were the good old days,' he said. 'Target practice was practically unknown.' A penurious government allowed only about 20 rounds per year for training–a situation altered only because of the Custer disaster. And the 20 rounds of ammunition often were expended in firing at passing game rather than in sharpshooting. The 7th Cavalry was not hampered by new recruits, for only about 12 percent of the force could be considered raw. What handicapped the entire regiment, however, was inadequate training in marksmanship and fire discipline."

 

[Maverick223]

Wasn't it experiences during the Spanish American war (US troops coming up against the 7x57 mm) that got us working on a speedy, pointy round of our own?

I believe so; that round was the .30-03Govt. and beget the venerable .30-06Springfield (nearly identical save for the shorter neck, higher pressure, and lighter spitzer projectile). Another interesting little tidbit is that the .270Win. and .280Rem. is actually based upon the .30-03, not the .30-06 as is often believed, you can see evidence of this by the lightly longer length of the .270Win. & .280Rem. (other cartridges are based upon the shorter .30-06, including but not limited to the 6mm-06, .25-06Rem., 6.5mm-06A-Square, 8mm-06, .338-06A-Square, and .35Whelen).

 

[W L Johnson]

Got a mossberg 30-30 that you almost need to use a float level with. My Marlin 336's are not nearly as bad, I can't recall ever having a problem with them.

 

[azyogi]

30-40 krag comes in there somewhere, IIRC just before the 03

 

[Maverick223]

30-40 krag comes in there somewhere, IIRC just before the 03

True, but it wasn't a terribly fast cartridge (roughly between the .30-30Win. and .300Sav.), and FWIW the .30-03 wasn't a spitzer (which undoubtedly led to it's early demise).