Do S&W SW9VE really suck?
- Thread starter Elvishead
- Start date
- Status
doc540
Member
Mine doesn't suck.
Asolutely reliable
Inexpensive
Simple
Accurate
Stiff trigger (ideal for in-car carry)
17 rounds of flaming death and destruction (embellished)
Plus Smith and Wesson has offered to smooth up the trigger and pay shipping both ways.
Asolutely reliable
Inexpensive
Simple
Accurate
Stiff trigger (ideal for in-car carry)
17 rounds of flaming death and destruction (embellished)
Plus Smith and Wesson has offered to smooth up the trigger and pay shipping both ways.
stonecutter2
Member
I agree 100% with the above. My SW9VE definitely does not suck.
The Sigma had problems with earlier models and that soured it's reputation. The SW9VE is the improved version. I've owned one for 6 years and it's never failed to chamber and fire a round.
The trigger pull/action gets a lot of flak, but I treat it like a double action revolver and have gotten very used to it...and I can shoot it pretty accurately. Since it has no safeties to mess with, I like the longer trigger pull. I have the utmost of confidence in my SW9VE.
The Sigma had problems with earlier models and that soured it's reputation. The SW9VE is the improved version. I've owned one for 6 years and it's never failed to chamber and fire a round.
The trigger pull/action gets a lot of flak, but I treat it like a double action revolver and have gotten very used to it...and I can shoot it pretty accurately. Since it has no safeties to mess with, I like the longer trigger pull. I have the utmost of confidence in my SW9VE.
hub
Member
I've had mine for two years and at first the trigger felt a little heavy but not too bad and it has never jammed. Its actually fairly smooth now after a little break in and dry firing, it's about like the trigger on my kel-tec p11 as a reference. I measure around 8lb trigger pull crudely with a fishing scale.
I've thought about putting in some Wolfe springs or sending it back to Smith and Wesson to see how much better it could be but honestly it doesn't bother me too much and I can constantly keep all rounds on target.
So i would say pros's
cheap, $350 with 4 17rd magazines.
reliable, basically same design as glock
ergonomics, fits my hand very well, even better with hogue handall jr.
accuracy, pretty accurate despite heavy trigger pull.
chamber indicator, nice feature a lot of expensive pistols don't have.
stainless slide and barrel
lifetime warranty
and con's
heavy trigger, can be lowered but should be better from factory.
stamped metal slide release, could be nicer but works well and is snag free.
plastic guide rod, I would prefer metal but it works fine.
copied design from glock, if that bothers you, and if that's really a bad thing.
For me it does exactly what I need it to do. It sits in my night stand full of +p Remington golden sabre's just in case.
I've thought about putting in some Wolfe springs or sending it back to Smith and Wesson to see how much better it could be but honestly it doesn't bother me too much and I can constantly keep all rounds on target.
So i would say pros's
cheap, $350 with 4 17rd magazines.
reliable, basically same design as glock
ergonomics, fits my hand very well, even better with hogue handall jr.
accuracy, pretty accurate despite heavy trigger pull.
chamber indicator, nice feature a lot of expensive pistols don't have.
stainless slide and barrel
lifetime warranty
and con's
heavy trigger, can be lowered but should be better from factory.
stamped metal slide release, could be nicer but works well and is snag free.
plastic guide rod, I would prefer metal but it works fine.
copied design from glock, if that bothers you, and if that's really a bad thing.
For me it does exactly what I need it to do. It sits in my night stand full of +p Remington golden sabre's just in case.
Ed Ames
Member
I have one.
The thing has been 100% reliable, is accurate, and seems as tough as any plastic gun can be.
I got it at a time of "$50 rebate + 2 free magazines" so the final cost to me was under the $299 I paid the store. I have since installed night sights ($75ish). As such it represents the highest value centerfire handgun I have ever purchased.
The trigger isn't fun. It does work. If it stops working I will care. As it stands if that trigger really stops me from using a gun effectively I need to practice more.
The thing has been 100% reliable, is accurate, and seems as tough as any plastic gun can be.
I got it at a time of "$50 rebate + 2 free magazines" so the final cost to me was under the $299 I paid the store. I have since installed night sights ($75ish). As such it represents the highest value centerfire handgun I have ever purchased.
The trigger isn't fun. It does work. If it stops working I will care. As it stands if that trigger really stops me from using a gun effectively I need to practice more.
I've lowered the trigger pull on mine a few pounds, just got done shooting it a couple of hours ago...at 15 yards I had 5 shots in or on the edge of the bullseye ring of a pistol target (out of about 10 I shot at it).
The trigger is the biggest complaint, and all the reliability issues, as mentioned, were with earlier sigmas. I have never had a jam or misfire and I've put 500+ rounds through it, no problem. In fact, I aimed at the top of a target at 50 yards and hit in the third ring of the target (had 5 rings). Once you get used to the trigger on it and learn to compensate and correct what you're doing wrong with it, it's a great gun for the price.
I think some people don't like it since it shoots almost as well as their guns at almost half the price. Mine was $350 new with 2 magazines, plus S&W will pay the shipping fee if there is a problem.
The trigger will never "snap" like other guns, but as I said...once you get used to it, the SW9VE is one of the best guns for the price. I love mine.
The trigger is the biggest complaint, and all the reliability issues, as mentioned, were with earlier sigmas. I have never had a jam or misfire and I've put 500+ rounds through it, no problem. In fact, I aimed at the top of a target at 50 yards and hit in the third ring of the target (had 5 rings). Once you get used to the trigger on it and learn to compensate and correct what you're doing wrong with it, it's a great gun for the price.
I think some people don't like it since it shoots almost as well as their guns at almost half the price. Mine was $350 new with 2 magazines, plus S&W will pay the shipping fee if there is a problem.
The trigger will never "snap" like other guns, but as I said...once you get used to it, the SW9VE is one of the best guns for the price. I love mine.
mljdeckard
Member
My Sigma was easily, far and away, the worst handgun I have ever owned. I'm ashamed to admit it when I was so young and stupid, I knew nothing about what I wanted in a handgun. I thought it looked cool. The front sight FELL OUT. (Imagine Ron White ranting; "It fell off. It fell OFF. IT FELL THE ^@#% OFF!!") I had to have the feed ramp milled to feed ANY ammo. And yes, the trigger is like prying candy away from my three year old.
First generation? SO WHAT. How many generations does a company have to go through to get something right? I STILL have a bad taste in my mouth for S&W autos. This business is too competitive to not get it right the first time. Glock sued them for patent infringement, why couldn't they copy the parts that worked? Even now, an M&P might be fantastic, but I doubt I'll ever pick one up to find out.
First generation? SO WHAT. How many generations does a company have to go through to get something right? I STILL have a bad taste in my mouth for S&W autos. This business is too competitive to not get it right the first time. Glock sued them for patent infringement, why couldn't they copy the parts that worked? Even now, an M&P might be fantastic, but I doubt I'll ever pick one up to find out.
doc540
Member
"First generation? SO WHAT."
"Second generation? HAPPY OWNER."
"Second generation? HAPPY OWNER."
How many generations does something have to go through? Usually two. Releasing a product to the mass public leaves the consumer at a risk, as parts may be faulty when all kinds of different testing conditions are considered.
Once these kinks are worked out and the faulty parts replaced, you end up with a good product. This is the same reason I wouldn't go out and buy a car the year it came out - I'd wait the next year or two when all the problems have been worked out.
The Chevy Corvette surely had a few problems when it came out, and I'm sure there were people who have cursed it. But now, it has gone up from the class of a regular muscle car or sports car to compete against $100,000+ "supercars".
I don't have to formulate an opinion for you, but you can see the opinion above - most of the owners of recently-purchased new sigmas (i.e., the "fixed" ones) like them, while owners of the older ones (the "faulty" ones) curse them.
That's the same logic I followed in purchasing mine. So to answer the question of this thread, do 1st generation SW9VE's suck? Apparently so, but I've never shot one or even seen one (maybe because the owners get rid of them or something).
Do 2nd generation SW9VE's suck? I would say "not at all".
The last question I have is for mljdeckard - have you shot one of the 2nd generation SW9VE's and compared it to the one you owned?
Once these kinks are worked out and the faulty parts replaced, you end up with a good product. This is the same reason I wouldn't go out and buy a car the year it came out - I'd wait the next year or two when all the problems have been worked out.
The Chevy Corvette surely had a few problems when it came out, and I'm sure there were people who have cursed it. But now, it has gone up from the class of a regular muscle car or sports car to compete against $100,000+ "supercars".
I don't have to formulate an opinion for you, but you can see the opinion above - most of the owners of recently-purchased new sigmas (i.e., the "fixed" ones) like them, while owners of the older ones (the "faulty" ones) curse them.
That's the same logic I followed in purchasing mine. So to answer the question of this thread, do 1st generation SW9VE's suck? Apparently so, but I've never shot one or even seen one (maybe because the owners get rid of them or something).
Do 2nd generation SW9VE's suck? I would say "not at all".
The last question I have is for mljdeckard - have you shot one of the 2nd generation SW9VE's and compared it to the one you owned?
One of the best buys on the market. For under $350 you get a well built gun that has excellent ergonomics and is very reliable. The trigger is the one thing that most folks have issues with and I agree it is too heavy for my taste. For $350 it a great buy IMO.
mljdeckard
Member
I'll say it again, THIS BUSINESS IS TOO COMPETITIVE FOR SECOND CHANCES.
Ed Ames
Member
That is clearly untrue... when the Sigma series first came out the price collapsed under the weight of bad press. Since the VE sigmas have been going up in price. For a while you could get them for $99 with another weapon. When I bought you could get them for $250ish. For a long time they were in the $340 range. I was in a gunstore recently and they wanted $389.
That is a more rapid rate of increase than I have seen with other weapons over the same time period.
Conclusion: The market has given S&W a second chance with the VE and S&W has been able to return the prices towards their original target price because the market is happy with the product.
That is a more rapid rate of increase than I have seen with other weapons over the same time period.
Conclusion: The market has given S&W a second chance with the VE and S&W has been able to return the prices towards their original target price because the market is happy with the product.
wvshooter
Member
I have a 40ve that has been the gold standard during the three years that I've owned it. I just bought a used 9ve that has been a jam-o-matic. I like them and I WILL get the kinks worked out of the 9mm.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,713
Yes.
mljdeckard
Member
The market kind of did. Doesn't mean I have to. There are too many good guns out there to have any reason at all to put up with this.
Ed Ames
Member
Nope, you don't have to.
Likewise, the fact that you haven't adapted to a change in circumstances says nothing about the value or quality of current Sigmas.
Likewise, the fact that you haven't adapted to a change in circumstances says nothing about the value or quality of current Sigmas.
Deltaboy1984
Member
I have a 40 VE that I got S&W to work on the Tigger and I am super happy with it. I have had no stove pipes or FTF's .
I don't know anything about the gun in question and am not attempting to make a point about it. You might ask what other guns they own by way of comparison. If you have never owned a Cadillac it might make your Honda seem a lot better. Like wise a gun owner might not the difference between say a poor average and great trigger if they have only owned one gun or never owned guns that had each.
HippieMagic
Member
The gun is fine but the trigger is horrible... That is about the extent of it. I am not too inaccurate with it but I can shoot a glock better. If the trigger was around 6lbs and a little shorter the gun would be nice though.
I feel like everyone who owns a sigma agrees that the trigger is the worst part of the gun...but does a good trigger really make a great gun? Yes, the trigger is, as stated above, "horrible". But when gripping a gun, it has to feel right. I've shot a few glocks, and none have ever had that feeling, whilst in my palms, that one is the "right" gun for me. I'm not trying to put down glocks, but gripping a gun certainly makes the difference when deciding if a gun really "fits" you. I'm still on the search for this gun, but as far as holding it goes, S&W has the right idea.
I have one that In trust my life to on a daily basis. It has never so much as hiccupped the entire time I've owned it (bought new, no failures of any kind even during "break in"). The trigger could be better, but depending on Doc's experience above, I may see whatr S&W can do to improve it a bit. As a revolver convert, I don't have serious misgivings about the trigger "as is" though
loop
Member
If you don't mind slides that grind, crackle and crunch or triggers that require a mule to to drag them through the grit, they may be great guns.
I bought one sight unseen and sold it as fast as I could find a buyer.
I'd be embarrassed to carry a Hi Point, but I would carry one of them long before I'd carry a Smegma. At least they don't make me feel like I'm dragging a rasp file over an aluminum can.
I bought one sight unseen and sold it as fast as I could find a buyer.
I'd be embarrassed to carry a Hi Point, but I would carry one of them long before I'd carry a Smegma. At least they don't make me feel like I'm dragging a rasp file over an aluminum can.
doc540
Member
"I bought one sight unseen and sold it as fast as I could find a buyer."
I bought one sight unseen and sent it to S&W on their dime as fast as I could make the call.
Even without smoothing the trigger I could shoot it accurately, and for $250 it's one of the best gun buys I've ever made.
MMDV
I bought one sight unseen and sent it to S&W on their dime as fast as I could make the call.
Even without smoothing the trigger I could shoot it accurately, and for $250 it's one of the best gun buys I've ever made.
MMDV
NGIB
Member
The ergo's of the Sigma are fine - Glock could take note of this. The trigger though is simply terrible - even with the home remedy's that abound on the web. I've had 2 and traded both away as I couldn't get passed the awful trigger pull.
This being said, I generally recommend them as the best of the inexpensive guns - made by a company that supports their customers...
This being said, I generally recommend them as the best of the inexpensive guns - made by a company that supports their customers...
HoosierQ
Member
No they do not. Some people don't care for them but they are a good gun at a very good price. They have a very long and hard trigger pull that some folks don't like. Current production models are as reliable as any other gun on the market and a whole lot cheaper.
- Status
