Do some guns shoot "flatter"?

[entropy]

Ok, I got it. Never heard it used that way before.

 

[MTNSTRYDER]

When someone who doesn’t know me very well Braig’s about their flat shooting tackdriver rifle I like to challenge them against my scoped 454 5 inch barreled BFR at 100 yards.If their bragging about a flat shooting gun I just figure they don’t know ballistics.I haven’t had to buy the drinks yet

 

[1911art]

Gee whiz there’s a lot ways a gun can shoot flat...

We gotta start the discussion with some specifics

But my gun is still the flattest. . .

 

[Coal Dragger]

So, two pages of posts arguing and then trying to clarify that a “flat” trajectory is in fact external ballistics and is not the same thing as a gun that stays “flat” under recoil or the cycle of operation.

I don’t know whether to laugh out loud at the derp, or shake my head in mild disdain.

At any rate I think we can all now agree that external ballistics, and moment arms of leverage and other mechanical and technique differences in recoil control are in fact two separate subjects.

So making the assumption that we’re talking about why some firearms, particularly the autoloading variety, stay flatter than others during recoil and the cycle of operation maybe we can get somewhere on that.

If you want your semiautomatic pistol sights to track as flat as possible, all other things being equal: learn how to grip the gun. Then learn how to orient your body to be as solidly behind the gun as possible. There are all sorts of videos on this, suffice to say if you’re not gripping as high as possible, as hard as possible short of muscle tremors, and leaning forward ever so slightly with your dominant side foot slightly behind your support side foot, with the strong side leg strait and support side leg ever so slightly bent..... you’re probably in need of some coaching.

It’s amazing how much grip and stance will magically make your blaster sights return to where they were a split second ago so that you can continue to dispense justice to the evil cardboard, paper, or steel target that is mocking you. You’re sure to wipe that smug look right off Mr. IPSC targets bland tan face once you figure out and develop grip and stance to go along with trigger control! That smarmy cardboard SOB won’t be laughing after you run a flawless Bill Drill on his recycled butt!

I suppose we could talk about things like bore axis height, reciprocating mass, Browning tilting block vs others, compensators, and other stuff too. However at the end of the day if you give a dude who can grip hard, grip high, and orient the rest of his body properly a decent gun he’s going to be able to make it track pretty flat no matter what it is compared to someone who does none of those things.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

So, two pages of posts arguing and then trying to clarify that a “flat” trajectory is in fact external ballistics and is not the same thing as a gun that stays “flat” under recoil or the cycle of operation.

The problem was that NOBODY ever claimed that a "flat trajectory" was the subject being discussed. Some (including me) assumed it was, while others just KNEW that "flat shooting" meant the gun being discussed didn't rise as much as other guns. I'm going to try to remember to use "flat running" when talking about how the gun behaves, not how the round behaves.

This is all about the strength and weakness of words -- because the meaning of a word or a term can mean different things to different people, but you don't learn about those differences until you try to define what the words mean.

I was a technical writer and training developer for a number of years, and learned that while almost anyone can write or speak and be understood, not everybody can write or speak so that what he or she is presenting is NOT misunderstood.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

This is all about the strength and weakness of words -- because the meaning of a word or a term is can mean different things for different people, but you don't learn about those differences until you try to define what the words mean.

Well said and that's what I learned in this thread. The original question was distilled down to a misconception about terminology. I feel it was a useful and educational discussion.

I don’t know whether to laugh out loud at the derp, or shake my head in mild disdain.

Neither reaction is logical IMO. While the common terminology may be to describe the recoil impulse of a pistol as "flat shooting" that fact is irrelevant if a person hasn't been exposed to that terminology or is used to interacting with shooters with a focus that never brings it up. As I said earlier I live in the boonies and the focus is hunting and defense here. Competitive shooting isn't a thing. So "flat shooting" means something different. "Flat shooting" always means trajectory in my location.

We cleared that up and some of us learned, which is half the point of THR.

While I'm not a technical writer as Walt Sherrill was, my career does involve writing technical documents that will be kept on file in perpetuity. In those documents technically correct terminology is required and every word must be chosen carefully.

IMO "flat shooting" is a total misnomer if being applied the way it is. "Flat running" makes a whole hell of a lot more sense. But that doesn't matter, as my opinion isn't going to change the practice.