Do these relaods look safe to shoot?

[franktheitaliantank]

All are 30-06 AP and pretty much use the same bullet. The one on the left (the one in question) is loaded by a guy who sold them at a gun show. The one in the middle is more or less a mil-spec 30-06 AP reload. The one on the right is an original Lake City 30-06 AP. They are all the same bullet. I am just worried that the one on the left is seated too deeply. I assume that the reloader loaded them like that so they can fit in most guns since only AP is that long... But will the bullet being seated too deeply cause added chamber pressure? Perhaps added chamber pressure on one spot in the chamber? Is there any concern here? Any help/info would be appreciated, Thank you.

 

[badkarmamib]

Data shows the powder charge is too high, using 165grain bullets. That, coupled with different OAL? I wouldn't risk MY gun with them, I would pull them, ditch the powder, and start again. You should work up a load for your gun, not start at someone else's max load. Stay safe.

 

[Axis II]

I don't know squat about that round but yes that is seated deeper. I'm pretty sure seating them deeper increases pressure because the gas now has a shorter area. I also would not be buying reloaded ammo from a gun show. you have no clue if that guy knew what he was doing and there could be pistol powder in there for all you guys know and hurt someone. not harping on you just saying I would stay far away from someone reloads from a gun show.

 

[1KPerDay]

don't know why ANYONE would trust his gun and his face to some doof selling gun show reloads. Pull them and reload with known components or toss them. The bullets are worth a bit.

 

[entropy]

don't know why ANYONE would trust his gun and his face to some doof selling gun show reloads. Pull them and reload with known components or toss them. The bullets are worth a bit.

+1. I won't shoot others reloads, unless i know them and have reloaded with them. That leaves me to my own and my Dad's reloads, and the ones of his I still have jam my .45's, because they are 185 LSWC. Last time I tried someone else's reloads, I had a squib .38 WC that lodged in the barrel of my snub. Almost took up the whole 1 7/8" barrel.

I loaded up some fun .300 Win. Mag. AP with pulled M2 AP projectiles once.

 

[witchhunter]

Never use unknown reloads. All of the components are there, pull them and then you will know what you have. Be safe!

 

[franktheitaliantank]

Thanks for all your answers so far. I was afraid of these kinds of answers... My Lyman book says 57 grains is max for 4350. But let's assume for a second that he did everything right with primer, powder, trimming etc... Will the fact that the bullets are seated low be a big deal? I heard that you can seat these lower when you are loading .308 or .300 blk... but that's just hearsay as far as I'm concerned. Does anyone know for a fact about bullet seating for these?

 

[Ironicaintit]

Weed out any that are seated too deeply. Period.

For the rest; a method I've used is to weigh each and every one. Segregrate/sort them from light to heavy.
Pull the lightest 10, and the heaviest 10.
Dissect them (the 20) and verify that the mass of powder in those is within spec.
Then theoretically, all those remaining should be good to go....assuming they all have the same powder type in them!
And all along the way...check for primers that are either crushed or too high, corrosion, and indications of incipient case head separation.

 

[Rule3]

Why oh why would you even condider shooting them?

What is there to gain? Nothing!

What is there to lose? Everything

How many are there? Just pull them and you will sleep better.

Don't waste you time weighing them, how do you even know if the powder as marked is correct?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Did I load them?
No?
Then no, they don't look safe to shoot.

 

[franktheitaliantank]

Why oh why would you even condider shooting them?

What is there to gain? Nothing!

What is there to lose? Everything

How many are there? Just pull them and you will sleep better.

Don't waste you time weighing them, how do you even know if the powder as marked is correct?

I get your point. To answer the question about why, is because I don't reload. Even if I did reload, I would still want to know if it is actually safe to seat them that low. I got them because they were already loaded and figure they might be the only option for a 30-06 that won't fit the longer mil spec rounds. I figure the guy at the gun show probably knows more about reloading than I do. As I said before, I've read and heard about people who set that bullet lower when they load the 30-06 AP bullet into a .308 and 300 blk... but I haven't seen that done first hand so I want to know more.

I figure I can at least hold onto them as a last resort or something... I've heard of people firing .308 out of 30-06 in emergency situations... How bad can they be as a last resort? The one in the middle is a reload too. The guy I got them from didn't even know they were reloads. I think he got mil-spec reloads and didn't realize they were reloads. They are at least seated properly in military brass though.

 

[badkarmamib]

Is it possible to load bullets deeper than specs? Probably, IF you dramatically lower the charge, and I am not intelligent enough to calculate what that reduction would have to be. When you are at max charge to begin with, then those most likely will truly be your LAST resort, at least as far as your firearm is concerned.

.308 cases, loaded within specs, could fit in a .30-06 chamber, but that is because there is MORE room in the chamber, whereas seating the bullet deeper gives you LESS room, which causes increased pressure.

 

[Orcon]

Shooting reloads of dubious origin is a recipe for disaster. Even more so when you can look at then cartridges and clearly see something is wrong with them. But hey life's short, live dangerously.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I figure the guy at the gun show probably knows more about reloading than I do.

Or he may know exactly the same as you do about reloading, which is zero. I would not take the chance.

How bad can they be as a last resort?

Catastrophic failure is always an option.

Seriously, we're not just trying to yank your chain or be curt.
The consequences of getting ahold of some terrible reloads from some yahoo who has no clue what they're doing is too high. Especially when he is loading at max loads and then playing with seating depth on top of that.

BTW, do we even know what 4350 he's talking about?
IMR4350?
H4350
Accurate4350?

 

[Jim Watson]

I would not shoot them.
1. Gun show reloads, who knows his quality control.
2. A maximum load for a 168 gr JHP applied to steel cored AP bullets.
3. Steel cored AP bullets to be shot in what, a nice sporter? Phil Sharpe said not to.
4. What primer? Did he pull bullets from corrosive primed old surplus or are these made up with fresh components?

Seating depth in a bottleneck cartridge does not have the straightforward Shorter OAL = Higher Pressure of a pistol caliber. The old Vihtavuori book had some information. A little shorter OAL reduces pressure because the greater bullet free travel makes more difference than the reduced powder space. But keep seating deeper and the pressure starts to climb as the powder is crowded. You cannot know where on that curve that particular load falls.

 

[Reloadron]

Nope, I'll pass on shooting them. The problem with a picture is that I really can't see what is on the inside. Even if the printed load data is correct and if we assume (never assume) IMR 4350 the maximum charge weight suggested for a 168 grain BTHP would be around 57 grains. I would not shoot the stuff as again we really don't know what we have. Then too, I absolutely would not shoot the stuff in any service rifle like the M1 Garand for example.

Should the day ever come when as a last resort I need to rely on questionable ammunition I guess it is time to get out of shooting or in battle concede to the zombies and become one of them. Seriously, real world, I let them lay.

Ron

 

[WestKentucky]

I would pull them and reload them...but I'm a reloader so I wouldn't be buying them. I am assuming OP is not a reloader, so my recommendation is to start reloading and set these to the side to salvage. 4350 is a great powder so take X rounds and end up with X brass, X bullets and 1.2X powder charges.

 

[fotheringill]

Certainly not shoot. It isn't worth your rifle, your face or worse.

Pull the bullets and examine to see flaws or damage.

The only non made by me rounds I would shoot are either factory loads or those made by a particular range officer where I shoot since my life is in his hands anyway.

 

[ATLDave]

I wouldn't shoot someone else's reloads unless I knew them and their process EXTREMELY well. So I wouldn't shoot those on that basis.

However, there have been some articles and thread in the last couple of years challenging the notion that in bottleneck rifle cartridges deeper seating raises pressures. I'm not a serious rifle handloader, and express no opinion on this myself.

 

[Rule3]

I get your point. To answer the question about why, is because I don't reload. Even if I did reload, I would still want to know if it is actually safe to seat them that low. I got them because they were already loaded and figure they might be the only option for a 30-06 that won't fit the longer mil spec rounds. I figure the guy at the gun show probably knows more about reloading than I do. As I said before, I've read and heard about people who set that bullet lower when they load the 30-06 AP bullet into a .308 and 300 blk... but I haven't seen that done first hand so I want to know more.

I figure I can at least hold onto them as a last resort or something... I've heard of people firing .308 out of 30-06 in emergency situations... How bad can they be as a last resort? The one in the middle is a reload too. The guy I got them from didn't even know they were reloads. I think he got mil-spec reloads and didn't realize they were reloads. They are at least seated properly in military brass though.

Regardless, no one knows what is actually inside the case do they?

Simple answer is be safe and do not shoot them

How bad can they be as a last resort??

 

[bfoosh006]

Also... the data listed is listed and possibly a decent load IF accurate.... BUT AP bullets are considerably longer then a conventional cup and core.

The steel insert is not as dense as lead... so the bullet / load is most likely over-pressure.

I wouldn't feel good about shooting them.... who knows how much care was taken while loading them... ( bullet seated way short... )

 

[Reloadron]

I believe Rule 3's image sums things up nicely. I just distrust what I see as unknown ammunition, even as a last resort.

Ron

 

[mdi]

Thanks for all your answers so far. I was afraid of these kinds of answers... My Lyman book says 57 grains is max for 4350. But let's assume for a second that he did everything right with primer, powder, trimming etc... Will the fact that the bullets are seated low be a big deal? I heard that you can seat these lower when you are loading .308 or .300 blk... but that's just hearsay as far as I'm concerned. Does anyone know for a fact about bullet seating for these?

You know the old story; "When you ASSume...". You mentioned the feller knew more about reloading than you do, but is he as honest or as conscientious as you would be? Would you trust a tire installer that left off a couple lug nuts? Or would you assume all are tight? You've already gotten a bunch of good answers so, put them on a shelf and wait until you get you press and dies, then you can deal with them (pull, dispose of powder, and start again).

 

[Nature Boy]

I believe Rule 3's image sums things up nicely. I just distrust what I see as unknown ammunition, even as a last resort.

Ron

Agree. Rule3's picture is worth 1,000 words on this subject.

And Ron re: last resort/Zombie apocalypse. Last resort to me would mean I just broke by last shovel dispatching an undead, I'm all out of sharpened sticks and all I have left is this plastic baggie of .30-06 I bough from some slack jawed yokel at a gun show

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I wouldn't shoot someone else's reloads unless I knew them and their process EXTREMELY well.

Same here.
I can count on one hand the number of people that I would shoot their hand loads.