Do we live in a violent society?

Status
Not open for further replies.

PistolNewbie

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Messages
132
Location
Iowa
I get so pissed everytime I hear someone say we live in a violent society. :mad: (Bill O'Reilly was just making some remarks on FOX News that prompted me to post this.) I don't think for one minute our society is violent; we just have a few violent gun slinging nuts hell bent on hurting and killing innocent people along with 24 hour cable news that brings us everything in real time and makes it seen so. It can overwhelm our emotions to the point of overload and we become irrational. Even though today is a day of sorrow and tragedy for the entire country and my heart and prayers go out to everyone touched by this senseless act, I'm sure there were plenty of good things that happened that we will never hear about. What are your thoughts?
 
Well, statistically speaking, our perception of our personal risk of victimization by violent crime exponentially exceeds the actual likelihood of its' occurrence.
 
Seems like the question is a comparative one. Is it a more violent society than.....

Our perspective of our society is colored by alot of things. The media's Information barrage, etc. etc...

Seems like you'd have to ask someone from outside our society to appraise our level of violence. I've had people from foreign countries tell me this was a violent country.

That said, I believe that the level of violence compared to the number of acts of kindness is very very low. But the good stuff folks do for each other doesn't make good material for the talking heads on TV.
 
Our society isnt violent IMO, violence is simply over-covered in the media. Personally I think its our own fault, not "ours" as in the members of THR, although we do share some of the blame, its the population in general.

If a 6 year old girl gets mauled by a dog, local news follows it (and the dog is automaticly a pit bull:rolleyes: ). They tell you how old the girl was, how serious her injuries were, if the doc expect a full recovery, and interview the family. Then they check back a while later to tell you the girl is fine and the "pit bull" was put to sleep.

Now, if the 6 year old girl doesnt get mauled because a family member shot the dog before it attacked, it isnt even mentioned.

Fact is that bad news is what brings the ratings up. Its a sad fact, but still a fact.
 
You are correct; it is a comparative question. I should have said are we a violent society compared to a generation or even two generations ago?
 
The truth and the logic of firearms v.s. the emotional left

The truth of the world is that there is violence. it cannot be escaped, it cannot be easily avoided, and in the brutal truth of the matter, only YOU can account for your own safety and protection, because no-one else can be held responsible for it.

The pandora's box of gunpowder has been opened and it cannot be put back. If guns are taken from law abiding citizens then only the government and the criminals will have the guns. After a time without our firearms to defend us and our Constitutional rights, we will not be able to tell the government from the criminals. The police are under no mandate to protect you 24/7, it is NOT their responsibility. they can only do what they can do, it is not a bad reflection of them and their services and sacrifices. However, one cannot sue the police because you were assaulted, robbed, or murdered and they failed to protect you.

In this latest tragic event, the college security could not seem to keep this killer off campus, they could not respond quickly enough to defend the lost students, the police couldnt make it until near the end. NO-ONE was there to protect the students. I beleive that this campus, like most all others, has a ban on firearms anywhere on the premisis. The following statement is the central point of thought in this post:

If ANY of the students, administrators, Resident Managers, or facalty had been trained with a firearm, had a firearm and had been allowed to carry it on their person on campus, this incident may have been much less serious, or even stopped.

The idiots in the media, in politics, and other liberal types that make knee-jerk reactions without thinking and go by emotion instead of logic will now be screaming to ban firearms. Instead, the gun laws should be relaxed so that it is much easier for reasonable, responsible, law abiding person to carry concealed as much as possible.

Contrary to popular belief that is spread by the emotional left, it would not become like Dodge City with constant shootouts in the streets. On the contrary, we would be a pleasant, safer society who have the abilty to defend our lives and property ourselves. We would not need to rely on any false sense of security that law enforcement will be there when we need them.

Ask any one who is in favor of draconian gun control if they really want to put their lives in the hands of those who are under no obligation at all to keep you from being harmed. Ask if they would want the ability to defend themselves. Ask any woman who is married and a mother if they feel comfortable with her and her childerens' safety that depends on a man who has the veiw point that guns do not belong in the home and that its best to just go along with a criminal that breaks in and do what he demands and hope that he is a kind and gentle criminal. Ask a wife or girlfriend what she would think of her husband/boyfriend as he is forced to watch as she is violated, he was unable to protect her because he doesnt believe in gun ownership.

thank you -- Eric
 
I should have said are we a violent society compared to a generation or even two generations ago?
Yes. The media celebrates violence even while decrying it. The entertainment industry thrives on it. From abortion to serious discussion of euthenasia, we have devalued life. So yes, I'd say we live in a far more violent society than a couple of generations ago.
 
Do we live in a violent society? Yes.

Compared to a few generations ago? Probably.

When I say we live in a violent society, I mean that human nature inherently has within it the ability to use violence.

Sun Tzu (I believe) wrote:

When cornered, even a worm will turn and fight.


This capacity for violence is what the gun-control people DO NOT seem to get. They somehow believe that ridding the world of ALL tools that have been used in violent acts will somehow purge the human condition from the DESIRE or ABILITY to do violence.

It does not. Ban all tools capable of doing violence and you leave one: The human being him or herself.

Those of the gun control crowd may well understand this, on second thought. They may well believe that we cannot be good stewards of ourselves-- that we can't help ourselves. Incidently, THEY believe that THEY are enlilghted enough to have means of defense-- but not us. Ask Rosie.

I am of the school of thought that developed in the romantic era regarding human nature call the Savage Garden. The premise is that the natural state of man is in its primal, free, and unfortunately occassionally violent state. Think about it. Many, many "experts" and researchers have made reference to the unhealthy affects of modern society on humans. They cite Road Rage, Intolerace, Inability to concentrate, Inability to sleep, Nervous conditions, etc as examples.

Those that dream of constructing an enlightened and evolved society have failed to understand that much of the tensions and radicalisms of our world are a result of the very thing they wish to create. Dr. Frankenstein didn't want to belive his creation was a monster, either.

Instead of admiting our society itself is to blame for bringing out the worst in many people, those visionaries decide that it is a failing of human nature that we are too irresponsible with having the ability to defend ourselves, make decisions, or be responsible for those decisons. Instead, they will take all that away from us to insure we don't make a mistake.

George Orwell saw them coming.

The failure of a nation of laws occurs when it becomes a nation of nothing BUT Laws. We have laws addressing everything. Every law written is some form of constraint. Even the laws of "public opinion" serve this constraining function. If you constrict any object enough, it shatters, or leaks develop. I honestly believe we are seeing signs of this on many levels in our world today.

I am not an Anarchist in any sense of the word. I am an advocate for common sense legislation, personal honor, personal responsiblity, and courage. Our grandparents were legislated by these things, and Walter Cronkite call them "The Greatest Generation" in his signature book. What will the historians call ours?


John
 
Yes. The media celebrates violence even while decrying it. The entertainment industry thrives on it. From abortion to serious discussion of euthenasia, we have devalued life. So yes, I'd say we live in a far more violent society than a couple of generations ago.

No doubt a great deal of truth in these remarks, but as a teenager of the 1960's (not quite 2 generations ago) we saw 2 Kennedy's assasinated, Martin Luther King, race riots, Kent State, etc, then later singer John Lennon murdered, John Hinkley Junior showing his love for jody Foster by trying to assinate President Reagan and on and on. Just another thought--mental illness kills a lot of people and we keep sweeping it under the carpet. I would love to see some research and money spent to see if we can fix the malfunctioning brain like we do the rest of the human body; I'm sure we do, but you sure never hear much about it. I guess it is easier to blame guns! Ok--no more--I'm done. :eek:
 
There are segments of our society that do exhibit greater levels of violence than others, but all of them pale in comparison to many other places around the world. Calling this country violent is, IMO, about as accurate as calling it poor-while a small minority may fit the definition, from a larger perspective in regards to the whole, the term is wildly invalid.
 
Compared to Uganda or Mogadeishu? No. But yes, life is dangerous and there will always be dangerous people out there we need to protect ourselves from.

No. Hiring someone else to protect you is no guaranty you will in fact be safer. Cops make good detectives and clean up crew, but don't count on them to come in until after the shooting stops.
 
One thing to point out:


Everything seems worse when you hear about it constantly.

The media only make thier rating when "There is Blood in the Streets." Everyone knows they report the negative, and they admit it.

Now, we live in a society where we get REAL-TIME information about anything that happens anywhere in the world RIGHT NOW.

Yes.. I watched on Fox and Friends a week or so ago a segement on some firemen getting a bear out of a tree. How slow did it have to be that day?

In the past, most of the country would not have given this kind of attention to any events like this unless it affected them directly. Now, the instant ANY violent act happens, it is everywhere-- and it is now the big epidemic we MUST pass laws to address in the future.

We now live in a sensationalist, knee-jerk world that legislates for the moment instead of the ages. Thankfully, our founding fathers were wiser than what passes for national leaders today.


John
 
Not me. I don't go places that I know are trouble, I don't do drugs, I don't hang around people with a lot of emotional problems. It's situational awareness. Sure, I could always walk into a situation, or it could come to me, but I primarily avoid problems by the way I live my life.
 
Compared to most of history, no way. We have documents of murder rates going back to the middle ages for some places. Murder rates in the US are way lower than just about any time or place you can think of.

We feel it is high because it is higher than some points in recent history, and in a few other countries even now.

But look at violent crime stats for other countries in the western hemisphere. Only Canada in all the countries of both north and south America has lower crime stats than the US.

We live in a low crime era. We do have crime hot spots, and some fairly violent sub-cultures, but the country as a whole, compared to the world and to world history, is comparatively peaceful.
 
Who's This 'We', White Man?

For those who may have missed this "finer point" may I remark that the shooter in this most recent event didn't grow up in "our" society

And he hadn't lived here long enough to be a product of our society -- violent or otherwise.

Any violence this kid had, he brought with him when he came.

He didn't get it here.

So, then, where did he get it?

What culture could have conveyed this into his makeup?
 
I am of the opinion that the very act of Living is intrinsically violent and to deny it is to deny nature.

Everyone, and I mean every person, kills to survive. Nature herself is even violent. And beautiful.

Violence is a necesary fact of life. It's malice that's evil.
 
In the past, most of the country would not have given this kind of attention to any events like this unless it affected them directly.
I generally do the same.

Oddly enough, I did talk about it for a while last night at work, but that was due to a conversation I had the night before.

I told a co-worker I was planning on taking a few courses at Tactical Response in the future, and my lady would like to go as well (oddly enough, I got "the look" every time I mentioned blackwater). Then he asked a few questions along the lines of why I would want combat training (after I explained what TR is). Made a few comments that the money would be better spent on something else, etc.

Last night when he came in, he said he didn't blame me for wanting to take the courses. We had another short converstation and that was the end of it.

I hate to say it, but I dont really care what happened at VT.
 
We do live in a violent society. After being in Iraq I definatly dont think its that bad haha. I am damn proud to be an American, and they will never be able to take your guns so dont worry about the media talking about things they have no idea about. When I came home from Iraq I would laugh at the media for their stupidity.
 
Violent no.
Evil people? yes.
We live in a sissified society where we are told to stand out of the way until the 'authorities' come to dispose of the evil people, or even better yet we are constantly bombarded by the idea that evil doesn't even exist-people who do bad need only go on the Oprah show and appologize to the world to be accepted and loved by all, no matter how rotten they are.

As long as evil isn't confronted and nipped in the bud, there will be violence.
 
Mommy society: Don't do that! You'll only hurt yourself. It's for your own good.

Daddy society: Why the hell would do a dumb stunt like that you dumbass?!
Don't you have more sense than that?! Sheesh.
 
Violence is part of our world. Nothing has changed. Violence is present in many forms in every nation in the world. As human beings, we try to protect our families and loved ones as best we can. This won't change.

People focus on firearm violence because it seems to be something that involves "choice". Many forms of violence directed at people involve choice. Nature exhibits far more destructive violence. We don't know what 23 year old Cho Seung Hui was thinking or what drove him to the shootings at Virginia Tech yesterday. But, to commit this act, you can't be normal and something is wrong. We can't fix everything. Sometimes we just have to clean up the mess. We live in a pretty free society and I want to keep it that way where people have choice.

I grieve for the families and victims at Virginia Tech. I grieve for all those affected directly and indirectly by this tragedy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top