Do you ever fully trust a gun for self defense after it has had problems?

[albanian]

I don't mean a few bobbles during break-in, I mean after it breaks on you for no reason or it malfunctions in a way that causes you to wonder about the quality. I have had a few guns struggle during break-in and then turn out to be great shooters (Kahr E-9, Ruger MKII, Bersa 23) but I have never been able to fully trust a gun after it has had to go back to the factory or parts have broken when they shouldn't have.

Here are a few guns that I have owned that I sold because I knew I would never be able to carry them without worrying about their reliabilty.
1. Kel-Tec P-32. Went back to factory twice. Broke twice. I gave up after I fixed it because I was tried of it and decided that I could never trust it with the track record it had.

2. kahr P-9. The trigger would not reset after certain shots. Didn't happen every time but when it did happen, the gun could not be fired at all. It started to do this less and less once I figuired out that it was the 8rd mag that was causing my troubles but then another wierd trigger problem started to occur and I ditched it. I had been down that road with the Kel-Crap and I knew when to cut my losses.

3. RAP-401. Trigger spring broke when almost new. No reason for it so I ditched that one as well.

4. Taurus PT-22. Went back to factory twice and still didn't work. I had planned on this to be a bug but not if it didn't work.

There are too many good guns out there to waste time on the bad ones. I have learned to cut my loses and move on. I will deal with minor problems but parts breaking when still fairly new really makes the hairs stand up because that shouldn't be happening to a new quality made firearm. I have some guns that have never jammed, never broken a part, never even had a screw work loose and other that self destructed after only a few rounds. The sad thing is, it is not just the cheap ones that are junk. I have paid good money for guns that preformed like Jennings or Brycos.

 

[JohnKSa]

It depends.

I'm with you. There is such a wide variety of handguns on the market, there's no reason to keep nursing one that gives you troubles.

 

[carebear]

It's kind of like older cars. I'm more confident of my ability to fix them and they seem to stay fixed.

Real metal parts and all that.

 

[Standing Wolf]

You don't always get what you pay for, but you never get what you don't pay for.

 

[The_Shootist]

Trust?

My Bersa Thunder broke on me after about 1200 rounds range time (not continuous of course ).

Yeah, I could get it fixed, but whats the point? Will something else break if I'm carrying it in the middle of a "social situation"?

Got a Mak to replace it.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

We I trust a gun that hads problems? It depends. Were the problems fixed?

Just curious, exactly how does the length of the magazine cause the trigger to not reset? Since the trigger parts are internal and the differences in mags stem from how much they extend out of the mag well, I don't see the connection. I am not saying it doesn't exist, only that I don't understand how the mag length is the problem.

You don't always get what you pay for, but you never get what you don't pay for.

Interesting perspective, awfully conservative, but not necessarily true.

 

[Dienekes]

Depends. If the problem is clear cut with a clear solution and it responds to the cure, and it never recurs--then the slate is clean. If the piece does not become stone reliable with a minimum of this sort of thing, I won't have it in the house.

Just sent a name brand semiauto pistol back to the maker that started out as a lemon and remained that way no matter what was done to it. It will be destroyed and a new one of the same model sent to me as a replacement.

I don't even intend to wipe the preservative off it. It will get sold at the first decent opportunity for a bargain price.

Did I say that I like revolvers better these days?

 

[albanian]

"Just curious, exactly how does the length of the magazine cause the trigger to not reset? Since the trigger parts are internal and the differences in mags stem from how much they extend out of the mag well, I don't see the connection. I am not saying it doesn't exist, only that I don't understand how the mag length is the problem."

As per the P-9. I am not sure that was the problem but that was my best guess since it only happened with that extended mag. I think that maybe the extra pressure from the stonger mag spring may have caused the frame to flex a little with the 8rd mag. The frame on the platic kahrs seems very weak and can be flexed with your fingers. It is not like the frames on the Glocks or the XDs.

Like I said, I am not really sure but it didn't seem like a problem I was willing to nurse since my K-9s work fine and no amount of pressure from my fingers is going to make them flex. Good ol steel, thousands of years old and still pretty darn good.

Why bother with a problematic gun that is designed for self defense? If it was a target gun, I wouldn't be so worried about a few reliability problems. A self defense gun needs to be 100% period. Anything less and it is going to sit on my shelf until I can sell it. I have zero use for a CCW that doesn't inspire confidance.

 

[Hypnogator]

Depends on how likely a repeat of the breakage is.

Got rid of my Kel-Tec P-11 because it physically broke 3 times. Even though Kel-Tec gave me a brand new pistol with my old SN#, I just couldn't trust it.

Had a breakage on my old S&W Model 60 several years ago -- the cylinder release latch piece broke, jamming the weapon. When I disassembled it, found that it had been machined so that there was practically no metal connecting the slide from the piece that pushes the cylinder latch forward. Replaced it with a part from a Model 36 which was more robust in that area. I still carry it on occasion, and it always resides within reach of my bedside.

Any weapon can break. Just take good care of yours, and steer clear of weapons that have a reputation for being fragile or finnicky.

 

[Moonclip]

Depends, I had a S&W model 14 break the firing pin, after it was replaced, I'd have no problem carrying it.

Bought a Taurus 82 38spl S&W model 10 clone. Used security company trade in. When firing it, the bolt that comes out of the botton of the frame to lock the cylinder in place got stuck in the down position once causing the cylinder to spin freely at all times.

A through cleaning and disassembly seemed to cure it but now I'm hesitant to use it for defense especially as I have much more effective and powerful guns I should be using that of are higher quality.

I may end up selling it but I kind of like having a knock around gun I don't mind having or taking places where I might me more likelyto lose a gun for some reason. But as I don't target shoot with it and I don't 100% trust it for defense why do I keep it?

 

[Mulliga]

Guns break. The trigger spring broke on my CZ-75, so I replaced it. Before that it had been very reliable. It's still cocked and locked on my nightstand.

I figure the chances of the trigger spring breaking again when I'm defending myself are about as good as me winning the lottery. And even if that does happen, that's what back-up guns are for.

 

[Majic]

It's mechincal and anything mechanical will eventually break if used. Do you sell your car because the battery went dead?

 

[Island Beretta]

it depends on whether we can really diagnose the problem and so we can be sure it is resolved...

e.gs.

if a firing pin broke, but we can't see why then I would have a problem...

my G19 jammed once on corbon 115g, no problem, jammed twice, hmmm, jammed again, no way jose, I have stopped using corbons in it..- the reason for the jam- bullet nose too blunt...

Beretta broke trigger spring twice..hmmm, researched it and found out the brown trigger spring has reliability issues, I am told to use the newer light-coloured one.. hear of the wolff conversion unit that the Border Patrol uses, a lot more expensive but hey, if Border Patrol is not able to break it, I wont..so I go with the wolff unit..smooth sailing since..

must know why!!

 

[Dr.Rob]

It depends...

fter getting a bunch of FTEs from my FEG Hi-Power a detail strip revealed a bunch of gunk built up under the extractor... remind self to clean it once in a while and the pistol is as reliable as ever again.

Most malfunctions are magazine related... I'm not afraid to ditch a problem mag now that the ban is over, as a new mag is often cheaper than a new spring/follower combo.

Trigger reset on my Magnum Carry is a 'known feature" its annoying but you learn to fully release the trigeer before snapping it again.

 

[TimboKhan]

You know, my first instinct was to say no, but then I got to thinking about it, and it really does depend. All guns fail at some point, as does all ammo. I don't think that I buy these "25,000 shots without a failure" arguments, only because I don't know that you can get 25,000 rounds of ammo to work consistently! If its a mechanical issue, generally that can be solved, and generally your gun will be as mechanically reliable afterwards as you can expect. I think for me personally it would have to boil down to a few issues. First, is the problem fixable. Second, how major is the issue? For instance, a broken extractor after a decent shooting life is easy to fix, and after the fix I would be perfectly comfortable. A cracked frame? probably not as comfortable. Third, am I in love with that gun enought to warrant repair? Fourth, am I gaining anything by repairing the gun or is it time to buy a new one. If I have shot, say, 50,000 rounds through a particular piece, and it breaks, I really have to ask myself if its worth putting money back into that gun as opposed to buying a new one. Of course, that answer depends entirely on the person asking the question, but it's still part of the process.

 

[TimboKhan]

BTW, consider that occasionally a whole batch of bad parts gets out, and thats not necessarily the guns fault. This is why occasionally there are recalls!

 

[HighVelocity]

If I have to make repairs or modifications to a firearm because it won't run 100% the way it left the factory then I will not rely on it for PD.

Stop messing around and buy a Sig.

 

[Werewolf]

I used to carry a CZ-75B SA until one week it failed its regular function check (trigger locked up). I had it repaired but haven't carried it since. That trigger failed for no reason that either I or the gunsmith could ever figure out. Carrying it just doesn't feel right and probably never will - that CZ-75 has lost my trust in its reliability. It's still a favorite shooter. I still use it in IPSC but I will not use it as a daily carry piece.

Now my carry gun (what ever it happens to be at the time) gets function checked at least twice a week and sometimes 3 or 4 times. Takes little time and adds a level of comfort to carry that I cannot over emphasize. When I did the function check on the CZ that failed it really got to me. All I could think about when it happened was what if I'd had to use that weapon that week? The answer wasn't pleasant to contemplate.

 

[CajunBass]

I don't know. I don't think I've ever had a gun break. I suppose I'd get it fixed and go on with life. It is just a machine.

 

[Model520Fan]

I had a Diamondback .38 break a firing pin. I replaced it after studying Kuhnhausen VERY carefully. Before too long, it broke again. I bought a whole new hammer assembly (I had bobbed the original hammer), dropped it in and checked it out, and sold the gun.

I replaced the firing pin AGAIN, and have used the bobbed hammer for years without incident on an Agent.

In the early 60's, I had a Dakota derringer in .45 Colt which would occasionally not fire the second shot. I don't have it now. If I had such a gun and malfunction now, I would first see whether I could find and fix the reason for the malfunction. In the case of the Colt, I couldn't, so it went away.

I would never carry a gun with an unsolved problem, unless it wasn't the only gun quickly available, AND there was a specific need for that gun that no other could fill.

 

[4thHorseman]

Do you ever fully trust a gun for self defense after it has had problems?

NO!

 

[denfoote]

Soitinly!!!

My P3AT was DOA after I shot it the first time!!
I sent it back, got it rebuilt (essentially a new gun), put the requisite number of trouble free (re) break in rounds through it, now it sits beside me as I type this!!

 

[Travis Two]

First gun I ever bought turned out to be a nightmare of unreliability. A nickel plated S&W 59. After trying numerous things to get the gun to run I gave up. Called S&W and they said look at the extractor and if there was a punch mark on the end then I had the "latest version" of that gun. At the time I was ready to send the gun off to Devel Corp. for their 180.00 reliability package. ( the gun cost 275.00 at that time) but when I got to the end of the application form it said no nickel guns. I called and was told by Charles Kelsey hissself that factory nickel guns were plated to cover up problems with the guns like cracks and welds and wanted no part of it. Called Austin Behlert in New Jersey at that time and he confirmed that; but he would work on the gun. However it would have to be stripped of the nickel finish first, worked on then refinished. Big Expense. I decided to dump it then and there. Started my search for my personal defensive handgun but did not know what to buy untill I read an article by Jeff Cooper. That was all I needed. Went out and bought a Series 70 .45. Changed the sights and had a bushing custom fitted. That was 25 years ago and I still have that gun and it is still reliable.

 

[ravencon]

The first mouse gun I ever purchased (about 25 years ago) was an AMT Backup (.380). The original model, with the wooden grips.

Despite trying every type of ammo available and tinkering with the magazine. It was never more than a single shot gun. Jammed just about every time it was fired.

I sold it and felt guilty about it. But, I sold it to a lawyer--so not too guilty.

 

[fastbolt]

Handguns aren't different from most other machines. Parts can become worn and even break. Sometimes parts may be found to be unknowingly defective right away and require replacement.

These things happen.

Stand outside the service departments of any car dealership and see whether they're foundering for lack of opportunities to correct and repair problems, as well as help prevent potential problems from occurring by providing preventive maintenance, for that matter.

I've had to have several of my personal handguns repaired, some of them virtually right out of the box when new. Major name manufacturers, too.

That's one of the original reasons I wanted to become a factory trained and certified L/E armorer, BTW, so I could repair minor problems which occurred with any of my personally owned firearms.

Pick a 'major name' pistol manufacturer whose products are in widespread usage by L/E agencies, and I can think of an instance where I've seen an example from that manufacturer exhibit a defective or broken part which required repair, and not necessarily after extended usage, either.

These things can happen.

As an individual owner I want to be able to expect reasonable care and concern for quality control during manufacturing and assembly, as well as quick and painless customer service for those problems that will occur regardless of the best intentions for careful quality control efforts.

As an armorer, I realize that while most of the major brands of firearms being produced are exhibiting increasingly better quality ... (computer controlled and ISO 9001 compliant production methods help in that regard) ... there are still going to be instances where some firearm may require a parts replacement because of a defective part, or parts which simply fall outside the optimal range of tolerance when it comes to proper functioning. These things can still happen. Then, parts can become worn and require replacement (outside of normal spring & perhaps magazine replacement).

Now, once I've had a firearm repaired by the factory, or I've replaced a necessary part, or parts, in a firearm that I'm trained to work on as an armorer ... and the firearm exhibits the desired proper functioning afterward ... I'm fine with it.

I've learned to avoid lesser quality firearms, however.