do you ever tumble live rounds?

[FlyinBryan]

just a simple yes or no poll.

sometimes my 45acp rounds have some of the wax lube smeared on the bullet or the case and i was wondering who all tumbles otherwise ready to shoot ammunition.

 

[Walkalong]

Yes.

It does no harm, unless of course, you tumble them for say........a week.

 

[spencerhut]

All the time, every rifle round I make on the progressive. BFD. Get over it.

 

[evan price]

Nearly every commercial ammo manufacturer tumbles their ammo before boxing to make it look shiny. There have been people who have as an experiment left live ammo in a tumbler for a month to see what would happen- they broke down the round and found-
No change in the powder, no dust, no broken granules. It looked normal, and when fired, had no effect on chrono readings.

 

[wyocarp]

I've tumbled live rounds. They come out shinny.

 

[71Commander]

Sometimes I do, but never on purpose. When you tumble moly coated bullets, they come out lead.

 

[Afy]

Just tumbled a small batch of 8x60S just now... first time I have done it.

 

[stubbicatt]

After reloading in a progressive press with ball powder... yes

Gets the lube off.

 

[dakotasin]

i don't because i have no reason to do it.

 

[Floppy_D]

All the time.

 

[Corner Pocket]

I never have, but I've always wanted to.

CP

 

[345 DeSoto]

...Yes...

 

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

Yes, I put loaded rounds in a vibratory cleaner to clean and shine the brass. However, I clean case lube off them with a gas soaked rag prior to putting them in the vibratory cleaner. I think the cleaning media lasts longer if I keep case lube out of it.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[Linear Thinker]

I urge you not to tumble the loaded rounds!

You wanted a simple Yes/No poll, but I am compelled to post my experience with tumbling for safety's sake.

Executive summary:
Many powders, especially extruded rifle powders, have deterrent coatings applied to control the burning rate. When you tumble the loaded rounds, the coatings may get rubbed off, which will change the burning characteristics, and may create an unsafe condition.

--------------------
About 20 years ago, the late and unlamented Paragon Co. imported a large quantity of Brit 308 ammo, marked RG67 (Radway Green 1967), which they advertised as like-new and shiny, selling for ~11 cents apiece.
Well, my lot of 5000 wasn't. All of the rounds were tarnished.

I took a 100 rounds and vibra-tumbled them for 2 hours to get the crud off the cases. The rounds looked much nicer after the tumbling.

Took them to the range with my HB FAL, and the first couple of rounds fired fine. The next round made an odd noise, and the action locked tight. I was unable to open the action on the range. After getting the rifle home, I was able to take everything apart. The brass case exploded (for lack of a better term) inside the rifle, the brass extruded into openings and jammed everything. No permanent harm to the rifle, a testament to good design.

I pulled the heads off of some of the remaining tumbled rounds. The powder inside has partially turned to dust. I compared those to un-tumbled rounds, no such disintegration. Needless to say, I discarded the tumbled rounds.

My take on the above is that the extruded powder has partially disintegrated as the result of tumbling.
It may have been because of age or improper storage, but more likely the deterrent coatings were worn off by tumbling, or the powder grains themselves were damaged.
Whatever the cause, the burning rate of tumbled powder has changed dramatically. It was probably closer to burning rate of a pistol powder, not medium-speed rifle powder as is needed for .308, with corresponding astronomic pressure.

I will never tumble loaded rounds again, and recommend you don't either - unless you get a thrill from the risk of a hand grenade going off in proximity to your face.
-----------------------------------------------
LT

 

[cpttango30]

Disclaimer: Please do not try this at home. I can not be held responsible for any loss of equipment or life or anything that happens from you trying this experiment.

From time to time we get into a debate about whether it is going to affect your hand loads if you tumble them after they are loaded. We normally get two polar opposites on this one. First is sometimes called “fradey cats”, because like me we head the powder manufactures warning and do not tumble our loaded ammo. Most of the time we use the excuse they are the experts not me. Second are the “commandos” who do not heed the warning of the PhD lab coats working at the powder manufactures and tumble their loaded ammo and say it does nothing, some have even claimed better accuracy.

the components.



So I am going to try and put this to a rest. I have loaded 12 308 Win cases with 4 different powders using Remington cases Winchester WLR primers and Hornady 168gr A-max bullets. The powders I used are a short cut extruded powder (Benchmark) a Ball powder (WIN 748) a medium length extruded powder (IMR 4895) and a Long Extruded Powder (IMR 4350). The weights of each load was taken from the Sierra “5th Edition Rifle and Pistol Manual of Reloading Data” and are all in the middle of the load range filling the case to right around to the bottom of the shoulder. For the test I loaded 3 each with the same powder charge as measured on a Lyman M-5 (RCBS 10-10) scale.
Powder charges are seen in the picture below. I choose these powder for a few reasons 1. It is what I have on hand. 2. I cover just about all rifle powders on the market with ball, short, medium, and long Extruded powders. 3. I wanted to see if one type of powder was more susceptible to damage than another.

• 
  Winchester 748 43.5gr

• Hodgdon Benchmark 39.0 gr

• IMR 4895 40.0 gr

• IMR 4350 46.0 gr

NOTE: Powder seen in photo above is for size and color reference, and it is not for amount of powder used in each load.

The test started at 12:22am Tuesday, July 01, 2008 First check will be Tuesday, July 01, 2008 at 08:22am for a run time of exactly 8 hours. This check will involve using a kinetic bullet puller and examining the powder in each case with picture documentation. The same powder will then be placed back into the case and the bullet reseated and placed back into the tumbler for another 8 hours. After 16 total hours of tumble time in a Midway USA/ Frankfort Arsenal vibratory case cleaner loaded with corn cob media the loaded ammo will be removed from the tumbler. All rounds will again be pulled part for inspection and photographic documentation. After that I will neck size all cases (For safety reasons) and reload all the powder back into the case for test firing from a sandbag rest at 100 yards. I will also load 3 more of each and set aside for accuracy results. I will also fire all rounds over a Shooting Chrony F1 Chronograph I will note all velocities and work up Extreme Spread and Standard Deviation using an Excel ballistics calc spread sheet.

Clock and ammo in Tumbler. Time 12:21AM Tuesday, July 2008.


NOTE: 12 loaded rounds in tumbler.

 

[cpttango30]

After 8 hours in the tumbler.
Pulled all bullets and inspected powder in pan and back of bullet. The Benchmark shows a very slight amount of “dust” on the back of the bullet. The Winchester 748 showed the least amount of “Dust” on the back of the bullet. The IMR 4895 shows slightly more “Dust” on the back of the bullet along with visible dust in the powder pan. The IMR 4350 showed the highest amount of “Dust” on the back of the bullet.

The brass used was once fired and had been cleaned twice before this loading. The “Dust” I am sure is from the powder and not the case as the Benchmark “Dust” was the same green color powder. There for I am going to say while it is not a significant amount of “Dust” and I seen not one single broken kernel the fact remains that something is happening to powder in a tumble. Weather it is able to be seen with the naked eye cannot be determined at this time. I would have to caution anyone from tumbling loaded ammo. I for one will stick to the not tumbling loaded ammo. As I can see with my own eyes that something is happening to the powder.

Also I noted damage to about 25% of the polymer tips of the Hornady A-max bullets. Ammo went back into the tumbler for another 8 hours.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

There have been people who have as an experiment left live ammo in a tumbler for a month to see what would happen- they broke down the round and found-
No change in the powder, no dust, no broken granules. It looked normal, and when fired, had no effect on chrono readings.

Been there, done that. Except that I didn't tumble it for a month--only 24 hours in my Thumler's.

And LT? I bought a bunch of that Paragon crap some twenty-odd years ago also when I picked up a couple of Enfields. We didn't tumble ANY of that ammo, but pulled a good number of bullets and found the same thing you did--blends of powders.

I have tumbled some IMR extruded powders (4350 and 4895) for up to 24 hours, and then pulled the bullets to inspect the powder. No difference.

Jeff

 

[snuffy]

There was no-way this was going to stay a simple poll.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300510

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=156750

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/602103723

As you can see, there's been tests done many times. My test is what brought me over to THR from the AR forum.

In cpttango's test the dust that he claims to have found came from the carbon/powder fouling inside a previously fired case.

I've done it for years to remove case lube from progressive loaded rifle rounds. No more that 20 minutes in bare corncob in a vibratory tumble is not going to hurt anything.

 

[ambidextrous1]

I guess I'm a "commando", according to an earlier post.

Sure, I 'tumble' loaded ammo (in a vibrator) from time to time, for an hour or less.

If you think that's bad, consider what may be happening to the ammo in the pistol you've been driving around town in the glove compartment of your SUV for the past two years...

 

[rcmodel]

+1

I do it all the time and have since I made my first tumbler in 1962.

How do y'all think the factories get their ammo so pretty?

rcmodel

 

[dagger dog]

Bought some real dirty range drops
1K, They were FILTHY, about 10 percent lost the bullets when I unpacked it tried to clean them up with 0000 wool ,got hand cramps, so I threw them in the tumbler, another 100 or so lost their bullets, but was able to salvage about 6-7 C rounds.
This was one of those good buys that a buddy talked me into.

Since tumbling those I throw any in the tumbler that look dingey.

 

[jeepmor]

If the factory can do it, why can't I? Should this be a Mythbusters submittal so the naysayers can be converted to believers?

I do it ALL the time, on every batch of ammo I make. I use a frankford tumbler with walnut shells. I've packed light, overfull and everywhere in between. Never an issue.

 

[M4inCA]

Where's the "All the time" Button???

 

[.38 Special]

I avoid the issue entirely by neck sizing brass in dies with titanium nitride inserts. No lube needed.

But I seem to be relatively alone among the good folks here at THR in that I enjoy getting results with a minimum of time, effort, and money.

 

[Kosh75287]

I've done it by mistake. I can't see that it did any harm. I've always wondered if the softer cast bullets might pick up the harder grit and garbage from the tumbling media and hold on to it as it's travelling down the barrel of the firearm. I can't imagine that such "extreme lapping" does the barrel any good.