Do you keep your hammer on a live chamber still?

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mljdeckard

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I was probably shooting next to these people on Saturday with my boys. I stopped at this 7-11 for drinks on my way home. On Sunday she was dead.

I told my wife, it's a matter of knowing your firearms. If you have an old style SA revolver, you must carry with the hammer on an empty chamber. Get a Ruger that's modern, or send your old one to Ruger where they will change it for free. Freak accidents like this hurt us all.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8083006

SPRINGVILLE -- A young woman died in a very public, but apparently accidental shooting Sunday. Investigators say there is no reason to suspect foul play.

Police say 24-year-old Richard Case and his 19-year-old wife, Molly Ann Case, stopped at a 7-Eleven store at 206 N. Main Street around 11:45 a.m. for refreshments. They were taking a break from target shooting and camping in Hobble Creek Canyon.

Kimberley Steele stood behind the young bride in line. "They just looked like they were in there buying candy and snacks and going to go out and, you know, have fun. It didn't appear that they were fighting or anything," she said.

That's when police say things went horribly wrong.

"As they went back to the car, he opened the car door and a .22 caliber revolver fell out. And when it did, it hit the ground and discharged," said Lt. Dave Caron with the Springville Police Department. "Then he looked at her and realized that something was wrong. She kind of lifted her shirt and looked down, and then fainted."

Case was taken to the hospital, where she later died.

Steele says it was a frightening sight. "He was standing over her screaming that this was his wife, that his wife had been shot, and he was just hysterical," she said.

Gun safety expert Clark Aposhian is the chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council. He says it's rare for a dropped revolver to fire. "It's got to land just right on the hammer," he said.

Aposhian thinks it must have been an older gun. Modern single-action revolvers have a safety feature, a tiny bar that lifts up to cover the firing pin.

"It prevents the hammer from making contact with the firing pin unless the trigger is pressed," he said. "We have not heard of any anecdotal stories of the new models being dropped and going off, and that's since 1973."

He also recommends gun owners secure their weapons in cars, perhaps in the glove box or console.

"You just don't want it, you know, like a jug of milk. You don't want it rolling around," said Aposhian.

Caron says it's important to always put safety first. "We kind of become complacent, and this is one of those tragedies that shows we should never become complacent," he said.

If you have an older single-action revolver, you can get it retrofitted with a safety bar. In fact, Ruger will do it on their revolvers for free, including shipping.
 
I own handguns that are NOT drop-safe.

They get handled with utmost care, and they are never carried.

This sort of thuing is sad, and does not help the RKBA movement. Strange that other accidents don't seem to carry the same weight in their respective catagories.
 
I think he was screwing around and pulled the trigger. I don't buy the "I dropped it and it just went off" story. Either way it's a tragic accident and he will never pick up a gun again without thinking of what happened. I hope we all take a second and think about what we can do to make our guns safer.
 
I think he was screwing around and pulled the trigger. I don't buy the "I dropped it and it just went off" story.
How the ? Did you get to this genius conclusion? Were you there? Do you know the excact make and model including year of the handgun dropped? Not to mention it was a 22 revolver on top of that, you know a rimfire.
 
I think he was screwing around and pulled the trigger. I don't buy the "I dropped it and it just went off" story.

I left my "jump to conclusions" mat at home, so I'll wait for the facts to come in. :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, there is no indication of any kind that it happened any other way then the way he said it. (The cop lives across the street from my dad and knows a LOT about guns.) Where the victim and the gun were and whether or not it was in fact a drop-safe gun would be determined very quickly, and if there is a nasty scratch on the spur of the hammer it's not at all unbelieveable.

But I do tell my kids, "If you are following all four rules, no one will get hurt. You have to break more than one rule for someone to get hurt." This is certainly an exception.
 
Not enough information ....
Even if the revolver had a safety device, it's possible it failed when the gun was dropped.
Aposhian said it might have been an older revolver. Maybe, maybe not. His comments seemed more speculative than informative to me.
I'm sorry for the woman's death, but I don't believe the verdict is in here.
 
id be curious on the angle the bullet entered the victim. can almost see the dateline special entitled "mean hubby kills wife in parking lot, claims defective gun dun it".
 
Assuming that the info in this story is factual this statement screams at me that "stupid" was at fault:

"As they went back to the car, he opened the car door and a .22 caliber revolver fell out. And when it did, it hit the ground and discharged,"

Why oh why was a loaded gun left laying around unsecured in such a way that it could just fall out when the door was opened. Guns and stupid just don't mix. Its the same as guns and alcohol! I am sorry that she died but damn when are people going to use the common sense god gave them.

KeithET
 
Ive seen a lot of weird things happen with metal, yes metal. if the gun dropped out. it oculd have landed on the hammer. if the hammer snapped real quick a clean snap in half. it could have had enough force to hit the firing pin and detonate. i Had a file today snap in half on me ive had lots of metal just snap in half when there is enough force. im certain that a small .22 hamer hiting concrete would have well enough force to snap the hammer and fire.

I view guns as tools, even the best tools break at some point or another. Its mechanical and it can fail.

I have a CZ-52 that i carry lots of times its cocked and locked, ive had my shares of it falling out of holster by the snap getting popped off and itting the ground. its a scary thing. i use to carry it ready to fire hammer back. i dont any more. I have been around some scary places out here in colorado on this farm off mine. i have had mountain lion encounters black bear encounters. wild dogs ive seen most of it. but after seeing my pistol hit the ground i have come to the conclusion its safer to keep a round out of the chamber unless i see that it needs to be loaded.
 
i would never carry a revolver with an empty chamber. why cripple a weapon on purpose. sounds like a massive safety failure to me. first off, this gun was being used for target shooting now CCW so why was it being transported loaded. Second why was the loaded weapon unsecured so that it was allowed to 'fall out' of the vehicle. its unfortunate but from how i take the story it could have been an easily avoided.
 
i would never carry a revolver with an empty chamber. why cripple a weapon on purpose. sounds like a massive safety failure to me. first off, this gun was being used for target shooting now CCW so why was it being transported loaded. Second why was the loaded weapon unsecured so that it was allowed to 'fall out' of the vehicle. its unfortunate but from how i take the story it could have been an easily avoided.
Not saying I would leave one empty, but I do need to play devils advocate here. Why would you be crippling it? Whether you shoot DA or SA it has to rotate to the next chamber to fire, so it doesnt matter if the hammer is on empty. If its a six shot you only get 5 but there are a lot of 5 shot revolvers out there.
 
There are a number of failures of well known (to us) safety practices here.

As shooters we should take every opportunity to make sure that others understand the basic safety rules.

Don't load it unless you need to ("need to" would have defensive firearms loaded).

Don't leave any gun unsecured. This prevents damage to the firearm and prevents accidents.

Treat all firearms as if they were loaded.

Don't point the weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.

Don't touch the trigger until you are preparing to fire the weapon.

Identify your target before shooting.

You're responsible for wherever the bullet ends up so make sure that what you're shooting at is where the bullet will stay.

The list goes on, but this one would have prevented even an accidental discharge like the one described.
 
There are a number of failures of well known (to us) safety practices here.

As shooters we should take every opportunity to make sure that others understand the basic safety rules.

Don't load it unless you need to ("need to" would have defensive firearms loaded).

Don't leave any gun unsecured. This prevents damage to the firearm and prevents accidents.

Treat all firearms as if they were loaded.

Don't point the weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.

Don't touch the trigger until you are preparing to fire the weapon.

Identify your target before shooting.

You're responsible for wherever the bullet ends up so make sure that what you're shooting at is where the bullet will stay.

The list goes on, but this one would have prevented even an accidental discharge like the one described.

Spot on. Unfortunately you cant educate everybody to stop these things from happening. I really feel bad for the guy though, that is going to haunt him as long as he lives.
 
ive never checked on a 1911 actually, but most semi autos i know have a form of transfer bar. heres how id check

unload the pistol clip chamber

locate where the hammer contacts the firing pin

pull the trigger while easing the hammer down

at no time do you let go of the trigger, keep holding it.

find out if thats how the hammer engages the firing pin.
next

cock the hammer

pull the trigger and glide hammer down

let go of trigger while letting the hammer down.

if the hammer will not make contact on the firing pin, after youve pulled trigger and let the hammer down. it should be safe to carry. long as that hammer dosnt contact the firing pin, and you cant push it into the firing pin you should be fine.

im sure others can explain it better

sonier
 
ive never checked on a 1911 actually,

Series 80 models have a firing pin safety. Series 70 do not. There have been several studies on how much force is required to set off a 1911 in a dropped situation and IIRC it was a significant height. I carry my 70 series C&L.

The most important thing to remember is a good sturdy holster. I do not hear mention of one of those being involved in the tragedy above ;)
 
Don't over analyze it, almost a million guns were bought last month, there is bound to be an accident here and there. Folks pay more attention to where they are going for dinner, than where they are and what they are doing.
 
Without going into great details beyond having the bullet wound scar in my abdomen to prove it, I have been the victim of my own stupidity with a single-action revolver (.22 magnum) by ignoring basic safety rules such as those cited by hso. My situation was a case of a dropped revolver that did not have the transfer bar safety and it went off. I was lucky, the bullet did not hit anything vital, I spent a couple of days in hospital and still have the bullet in me because the docs said I would take longer to recover from the surgery to remove it. Now it is a source of amusement (and grim reminder) when I get chest X-rays. This happened 34 years ago BTW. I am very aware of firearm safety now because of it.
 
1. A .22lr single action revolver isn't my idea of a carry gun. If it wasn't being carried for self-defense, why was it loaded?

2. If it "fell out" of the car, it wasn't being properly carried or stored. In Ohio, it probably wouldn't have even been legal to carry in any way likely to have been dropped in such a manner.
 
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