mondocomputerman
Member
I wonder what the 338 would to to the backstop at my indoor range?
Do you need a REASON to buy a big bore rifle?
- Thread starter mountainclmbr
- Start date
- Status
Frank Exchange Of Views
Member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2004
- Messages
- 40
Personally the "want one" thing was all I needed for my Ruger No. 1 in .416 Rigby - that and the previous owner was letting it go for a criminally low price with dies et al. The "official" reason was for use as an "elk in the deep woods" rifle - for me it "uses" the same way I hear about people using their lever .45-70's.
Also, the look on people's faces when they shoot it and discover it doesn't pound them into the next dimension is truly priceless.
Also, the look on people's faces when they shoot it and discover it doesn't pound them into the next dimension is truly priceless.
Foreign Devil
Member
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2004
- Messages
- 507
This thread has made me want more guns!
I have always wanted to get a real "monster stopper" caliber too, not to go to Africa but just for fun.
Is 375 H&H mag a good caliber to start in this area? It is well known and more common than some other calibers mentioned here. I've heard it's actually considered under powered today for the biggest dangerous game.
Is there a good book to recommend on what cartridges are used against the big dangerous animals?
By the way there have been incidents where circus elephants have escaped and gone on rampages in urban/suburban areas. I saw a documentary where police were firing up an escaped elephant with their AR's and shotguns to no effect. So you see if my suburban neighborhood is overrun with rogue elephants I must be prepared.
I have always wanted to get a real "monster stopper" caliber too, not to go to Africa but just for fun.
Is 375 H&H mag a good caliber to start in this area? It is well known and more common than some other calibers mentioned here. I've heard it's actually considered under powered today for the biggest dangerous game.
Is there a good book to recommend on what cartridges are used against the big dangerous animals?
By the way there have been incidents where circus elephants have escaped and gone on rampages in urban/suburban areas. I saw a documentary where police were firing up an escaped elephant with their AR's and shotguns to no effect. So you see if my suburban neighborhood is overrun with rogue elephants I must be prepared.
Throw that small bore stuff away - CZ is coming out with rifles in .505Gibbs ! " short ,ugly, shockingly big-bored 505 Gibbs" the description of Robert Wilson's rifle in the Hemingway story ! Now I'll be ready for those rogue woodchucks.
HankB
Member
The .375 H&H is a fine cartridge, adequate for ANYTHING that walks the face of this earth. And if ammo in a "serious" caliber is available in only one cartridge locally, it will most likely be for the .375, whether you're in Oklahoma or Zambia.
If you need something that hits harder, the .458 Win Mag is a good choice. Today's premium ammo - or better, carefully prepared handloads - will make it the equal of any number of the old British express rifle rounds. And ammo is readily available.
Still need more? Try .458 Lott. Now a factory loaded cartridge, this is what the .458 Winchester should have been from the start. A 500 grain bullet at around 2300 ft/sec produces nearly 6000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, a "stopper" by any measure. And in a pinch, you can still shoot .458 Win Mag.
I'd think twice about .470, .416 Rigby, etc,. simply because of ammo costs and ammo availability. Don't get me wrong - they're FINE cartridges - but it will take more commitment on the owner's part to keep them "fed."
If you need something that hits harder, the .458 Win Mag is a good choice. Today's premium ammo - or better, carefully prepared handloads - will make it the equal of any number of the old British express rifle rounds. And ammo is readily available.
Still need more? Try .458 Lott. Now a factory loaded cartridge, this is what the .458 Winchester should have been from the start. A 500 grain bullet at around 2300 ft/sec produces nearly 6000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, a "stopper" by any measure. And in a pinch, you can still shoot .458 Win Mag.
I'd think twice about .470, .416 Rigby, etc,. simply because of ammo costs and ammo availability. Don't get me wrong - they're FINE cartridges - but it will take more commitment on the owner's part to keep them "fed."
MAURICE
Member
A mutant UN zombie deer?
only1asterisk
member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2003
- Messages
- 2,412
My big bores cost about the same any other out of the box rifles to set up and feed.
Ruger 77, Winchester 70 Classic, Remington 700, CZ 550: $450-625
Mounts, Rings, Scope: $250-450
Dies: $35+
Brass (100): $25-35
$775-1150
CZ 550 Safari, Ruger No.1 in 416 Rigby: $625-700
Dies: $60
Brass (100): $200
$ 900-975
Brass for the 416 Rigby is expensive, but at normal pressure levels it will last forever (or 8-10 years). Bullets for the .416's are expensive starting at about .20 each. Powder is .25-30 a pop. You're talking about a half buck a shot. That's twice as much as my small bore plinking loads, but you are not likely to sit down at the bench and blast off box after box of them.
David
Ruger 77, Winchester 70 Classic, Remington 700, CZ 550: $450-625
Mounts, Rings, Scope: $250-450
Dies: $35+
Brass (100): $25-35
$775-1150
CZ 550 Safari, Ruger No.1 in 416 Rigby: $625-700
Dies: $60
Brass (100): $200
$ 900-975
Brass for the 416 Rigby is expensive, but at normal pressure levels it will last forever (or 8-10 years). Bullets for the .416's are expensive starting at about .20 each. Powder is .25-30 a pop. You're talking about a half buck a shot. That's twice as much as my small bore plinking loads, but you are not likely to sit down at the bench and blast off box after box of them.
David
"Safari Rifles" by Craig Boddigton is a good book.. you'll want a big bore and a jaunty hat after reading it.
M1911Owner
Member
Yes. There's a five-page, triplicate form you have to fill out, and then you have to write a three-page essay entitled, "My Reason to Buy a Big Bore Rifle."
artherd
member
Uh, if your backstop was 3/4" plate, and if it were a 500yard indoor range, then it'd still perforate it
BC on the .338LM looks a lot like .50BMG. (just slightly smaller holes.)
With the Armalite brake (eats 70% of recoil!) and 12lb weight, the gun is a DREAM to shoot. Recoil is less than a .30-06 (though it's 'faster' too.) Just incredible to see the effects of this round. 3/4" was the biggest stuff we had, and even all the way out to 500yds, it still went right through. With BTHP ball ammo too. (not AP.)
mainmech48
Member
Bought a Marlin 1895G a couple of years back, just because the price was right, I temporarily had too much discretionary cash, and I wanted it.
Thought that I really wouldn't have much practical use for it. I was wrong.
It's pretty much replaced my old 336 in .35 Rem. for deer in the timber. Weight is about the same, practical range is about the same, recoil with Federal Premium 300 gr. HPs feels slightly lighter to me (silly looking ports may actually work), and it's somewhat more accurate.
Both of the deer that I've shot with it dropped in their tracks. The largest was an eight-pointer at 73.8 yards (Bushnell Yardage Pro) that field dressed at 167 lbs as measured on the scale at the check station. Biggest buck that I've ever even had a shot at, much less took.
I shoot it a lot more than I ever expected to, just because it's turned out to be such a gas doing it. I'm already working on my sixth box of Meister 300 gr. cast FPs and ordered a second box of 500 Remington 300 gr. JHPs.
No belted magnums...yet. But if I see any '48 Buicks in the neighborhood that could change.
Thought that I really wouldn't have much practical use for it. I was wrong.
It's pretty much replaced my old 336 in .35 Rem. for deer in the timber. Weight is about the same, practical range is about the same, recoil with Federal Premium 300 gr. HPs feels slightly lighter to me (silly looking ports may actually work), and it's somewhat more accurate.
Both of the deer that I've shot with it dropped in their tracks. The largest was an eight-pointer at 73.8 yards (Bushnell Yardage Pro) that field dressed at 167 lbs as measured on the scale at the check station. Biggest buck that I've ever even had a shot at, much less took.
I shoot it a lot more than I ever expected to, just because it's turned out to be such a gas doing it. I'm already working on my sixth box of Meister 300 gr. cast FPs and ordered a second box of 500 Remington 300 gr. JHPs.
No belted magnums...yet. But if I see any '48 Buicks in the neighborhood that could change.
thefitzvh
Member
I want one just to piss off the antis.
Matter of fact, I want something in .50. I want it evil, and black, with an evil, black scope, and evil black sling, an evil black bolt handle, and I even want to find ammo in black cases...
Then, I take a picture, send it to feinswine and boxer, and we elect new senators after they have heart attacks.
James
Matter of fact, I want something in .50. I want it evil, and black, with an evil, black scope, and evil black sling, an evil black bolt handle, and I even want to find ammo in black cases...
Then, I take a picture, send it to feinswine and boxer, and we elect new senators after they have heart attacks.
James
Why a big bore?
I hope people can access this link:
http://www.adn.com/front/story/5013985p-4942009c.html
I would consider 416 Remington Magnum a big cartridge. And to think we hear people ask about what handgun cartridge will work on bear...
I hope people can access this link:
http://www.adn.com/front/story/5013985p-4942009c.html
I would consider 416 Remington Magnum a big cartridge. And to think we hear people ask about what handgun cartridge will work on bear...
No, I have never needed a reason and have bought about 6. I currently have 458 Win Mag/375 H&H CZ Safaris and a 376 Steyr Scout. These are much more fun (and manly ) than any of the large bore handguns. The guy who mentioned the jaunty hat knew whereof he spoke.
Happy shooting!
I currently have 458 Win Mag/375 H&H CZ Safaris and a 376 Steyr Scout. These are much more fun (and manly ) than any of the large bore handguns. The guy who mentioned the jaunty hat knew whereof he spoke. Happy shooting!
Bought them for fun
I figger I have as much chance of hunting cape buff or oliphant as I do T. Rex. But its fun to think.
Everyone says the gun you need in Africa is not a push-feed (like the Remington 700 Classic in .375 H&H I bought a few years back), and certainly not a single-shot, like the Ruger 1H in .458 Win that I just recently bought... But, I've never had the feeding problems for my .375 H&H everyone talks about, and my other Ruger #1's have never given me much time problems -- but then, I've never tried to work the bolt or re-load the #1 with a charging elephant coming at me.
I tend to prefer trajectory over power -- hence my .375H&H that came first. I had been considering a .416 in some flavor for the power+trajectory, but it really doesn't beat the .458 win by much, whereas the .375 H&H does -- and it isn't a slouch in the power dept. The other consideration was the cases. .458 Win is much cheaper than .416 or other big bores.
Another idea was to use reduced loads in the .458 (take it down to .45-70 levels). Loading worked right -- but point of aim actually rose by 14" at 50 yrds. Oh well -- using that on deer looks like it could be very problematical.
So -- I get to punch paper at the range (very good accuracy), and dream of T Rex's showing up in my yard. Had a chance to examine a T. Rex mount at the Smithsonian last week -- you can actually walk right under the skull. If you look up, it is a latticework, and quite open. The skull is really quite light, and not solid. There is a very small brain case at the top of the spinal chord. It doesn't look like a brain shot would be very trustworthy. The fore-arms are quite short to compensate for the heavy head (6' long, even if it is made out of lattice). The tail balances over the legs. The ribs are not nearly as heavy as quadrupeds -- even elephant. The T. Rex weight roughly up to 7 tons -- just 2 tons more than an African elephant. Most of the heavy muscle attachments look like they were in the legs.
A shot to the hips to break bones and anchor the beast (.458 Win), and a shot in the chest to take out lungs and/or heart with a lighter round (.375 H&H) would likely be sufficient. Just use a .458 win. Of course, someone who enjoys .50 BMG would have less trouble...
But -- I can dream, and enjoy punching paper...
Dan
I figger I have as much chance of hunting cape buff or oliphant as I do T. Rex. But its fun to think.
Everyone says the gun you need in Africa is not a push-feed (like the Remington 700 Classic in .375 H&H I bought a few years back), and certainly not a single-shot, like the Ruger 1H in .458 Win that I just recently bought... But, I've never had the feeding problems for my .375 H&H everyone talks about, and my other Ruger #1's have never given me much time problems -- but then, I've never tried to work the bolt or re-load the #1 with a charging elephant coming at me.
I tend to prefer trajectory over power -- hence my .375H&H that came first. I had been considering a .416 in some flavor for the power+trajectory, but it really doesn't beat the .458 win by much, whereas the .375 H&H does -- and it isn't a slouch in the power dept. The other consideration was the cases. .458 Win is much cheaper than .416 or other big bores.
Another idea was to use reduced loads in the .458 (take it down to .45-70 levels). Loading worked right -- but point of aim actually rose by 14" at 50 yrds. Oh well -- using that on deer looks like it could be very problematical.
So -- I get to punch paper at the range (very good accuracy), and dream of T Rex's showing up in my yard. Had a chance to examine a T. Rex mount at the Smithsonian last week -- you can actually walk right under the skull. If you look up, it is a latticework, and quite open. The skull is really quite light, and not solid. There is a very small brain case at the top of the spinal chord. It doesn't look like a brain shot would be very trustworthy. The fore-arms are quite short to compensate for the heavy head (6' long, even if it is made out of lattice). The tail balances over the legs. The ribs are not nearly as heavy as quadrupeds -- even elephant. The T. Rex weight roughly up to 7 tons -- just 2 tons more than an African elephant. Most of the heavy muscle attachments look like they were in the legs.
A shot to the hips to break bones and anchor the beast (.458 Win), and a shot in the chest to take out lungs and/or heart with a lighter round (.375 H&H) would likely be sufficient. Just use a .458 win. Of course, someone who enjoys .50 BMG would have less trouble...
But -- I can dream, and enjoy punching paper...
Dan
fallingblock
Member
Great photo, Gewehr98!
I actually had to 'justify' my purchase of a Ruger #1 .45/70 to the police.
"For control of larger feral animals such as camel" did the trick.
Everybody who likes guns needs at least one big-bore rifle...just to round out their shooting experience.
I actually had to 'justify' my purchase of a Ruger #1 .45/70 to the police.
"For control of larger feral animals such as camel" did the trick.
Everybody who likes guns needs at least one big-bore rifle...just to round out their shooting experience.
No.
Can't have just one.
Nobody has mentioned the 458 socom ar15 upper. Same bullets at the 45-70. About the same powder and amount. Could be an inexpensive thing to reload 2 cartriges with the same powders and bullets.
I don't have my reloading setup yet and I realy have to force myself not to blow through every box of factory loads I have handy. 45-70 is allways makin me smile.
A HighRoader showed me how he reloads on a new cartridge the 458 socom. So now I have my own HBAR and watching for other uppers.
Can't have just one.
Nobody has mentioned the 458 socom ar15 upper. Same bullets at the 45-70. About the same powder and amount. Could be an inexpensive thing to reload 2 cartriges with the same powders and bullets.
I don't have my reloading setup yet and I realy have to force myself not to blow through every box of factory loads I have handy. 45-70 is allways makin me smile.
A HighRoader showed me how he reloads on a new cartridge the 458 socom. So now I have my own HBAR and watching for other uppers.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Got myself a Ruger #1 in 45-70 a week or so ago - made up some handloads and put some thru this evening. Is it ever satisfying!? Reason for getting this?? WANT - as against need!
That's my ''reason''
That's my ''reason''
Hellion Productions
Member
I'll take one of these, and the rifle too.
Of course, I'd have to justify either to the wife.
Best,
John Bear Ross
Of course, I'd have to justify either to the wife.
Best,
John Bear Ross
fallingblock
Member
Good onya' P95Carry!
Are those loads "OW" loads?
(from the involuntary response following the shot)
Are those loads "OW" loads?
(from the involuntary response following the shot)
- Status
