Do you remove the case lube after ammo completion?

[rajbcpa]

I was looking at some rifle ammo that I loaded about 2 years ago and the brass cases are now heavily tarnished. I removed the case lube after they were finished - probably with a towel. These were stored in a green plastic ammo box in the basement which is dry and not humid. I use a de-humidifier.

Is there any harm in leaving the case lube on after the cases (ammo) have been finished? I don't think there is enough lube to gum up the rifle action. This is a bolt action.

Will the case lube prevent or slow down any tarnishing of the brass cases?

I use a spray on lube and I think it is petroleum based.

 

[balderclev]

Tumble the brass after sizing to remove the lube. Or clean it off some other way after sizing.

 

[rajbcpa]

I use a progressive press and I de-cap and resize in the same step.

 

[bigdaa]

You want to prevent tarnishing, desiccate your storage area and storage ammo cans.

This is a must! Use desiccant packages in 30, 50 and such ammo cans and use a consumable form of desiccant in the cabinets or closets.

This I swear by!!!!


I always tumble my brass after resizing and so a way goes the lube!

Good luck.

 

[TenDriver]

I tumble, lube, size, tumble again. It doesn't take long in the tumbler to remove the lube, usually 20-30 minutes and it's all gone.

My problem is the red film in the cases. Ive had no luck getting that out.

 

[rfwobbly]

IMHO, tarnishing is simply oxidation of the brass. Oxidation of brass is a normal, everyday process in and of itself. That is, in order to slow or stop it, one has to "fool Mother Nature".

There are multiple compounds that could accelerate the oxidation process. You seem to suspect water/ humidity, and you are correct. But the petroleum-based sizing lube could also be the source. You would be thinking right if you wanted to remove that.... Or better still, stop using that product altogether. Another more common compound that we often overlook is the salts that are on everyone's finger tips.

In order to slow or stop the oxidation process, the best way is to seal the surface from the oxygen. This has been done for centuries with compounds we call "wax". These compounds did contain some portion of bees wax and other naturally occurring ingredients mixed with solvents that helped during application and "drying".

Within the last 30 years or so, the natural ingredients in 'car wax' have been completely replaced by modern polymers. In effect, by tumbling with Turtle Wax or NuFinish car wax, you are coating your ammo with a substance that becomes a single molecule covering the entire surface of the cartridge. With no cracks or holes, there's no way for oxygen molecules to enter, therefore oxidation is almost completely stopped. That's how these "once a year" car waxes work.

Bottom line.... Start tumbling with an automotive grade wax in the tumbling media. Use a wax-based sizing lube. Then as a final step, consider a final tumble in the media again. Then wear medical gloves when placing the finished cartridges into the plastic ammo boxes. That should ensure minimum oxidation over the longest period.

 

[stavman11]

I always De-prime and size all at Once with my Progressive Press... Then toss em all in the Tumbler for about an hour and cleans em right up...

Did 600 .223 on Sunday... tossed 300 in tumbler.. did 300 more... then the 1st 300 where done checked the sizes of those and separated accordingly... then the next 300 where cleaned and did the same..

works real well for me and then I just focus on Loading the rounds at that point...

 

[Walkalong]

Yes, I tumble off the lube, but generally with dry media, no polish. If I want to load some to store for a while I re-tumble with polish after loading for better protection.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I had a box of new factory pistol cartridges given to me from a friend who is essentially a chain-smoker and smokes in their house. The new box of cartridges were about 15 years old and stunk like stale cigarettes.

All the new, OEM factory brass cartridge casings had brass which was severely-tarnished, unlike my own reloads that are even twice that old (and older) in my household where there are no smokers. Upon closer inspection, I also noticed that a short portion of each brass casing which extended down snugly into the white foam tray holes was not as tarnished as the portion not snugly-surrounded by the white foam tray.

Of the literally-hundreds of chemicals (or possibly many more) and associated chemical-reactions of the cigarette-burning process, it is obvious that cigarette smoke causes tarnishing.

I would also think that certain solvents and/or chemicals which, if in the air where brass is stored would, over prolonged periods of time, result in tarnishing of the brass.

I'm not a chemical-engineer nor am I a metallurgist. I suppose we could get some feedback from people who are in these professions. To answer the OP's original question, I would think that any such chemicals would play into just how to best prevent tarnishing in such environments.

 

[USSR]

I use Imperial Sizing Die lube on rifle cases, and simply wipe them with a paper towel after sizing.

Don

 

[gamestalker]

I never leave the lube on the cases. First and foremost, any residue whether it's lube or some other substances, will have a profound effect on necessary case seize, at the time the cartridge is discharged. With all cartridges, the case will momentarily seize against the chamber walls during the time in which pressures are rising and peak. This is what prevents cases from slamming into the bolt or breach face of a firearm, which is capable of damaging the lugs, and or bolt face. Additionally, anything that is between the case and the chamber / barrel can damage them by causing them to bulge or fracture.

I use a spray on ( Dillon ) case lube and it will cause my brass to tarnish if left on for extended periods of time. I always wipe my brass down inside and out with either acetone, or alcohol after resizing, and then I tumble them until they look like new. Once I've finished loading them I then store them in plastic ammo boxes. But since brass is very prone to tarnishing, unless you store them in a zero atmospheric manner, they will eventually tarnish.

GS

 

[Clark]

I wipe off Imperial Die Wax with an old towel, if the brass might be used for hunting.

I don't worry about it for going to the range, a class IV clean room compared to MY hunting trips.

 

[GT1]

I use a pump spray also. By the time my rounds are done there is very little lube, not enough to bother with, they are either loaded in mags or boxed up.

Some folks prefer wasting time, I suppose.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I use Imperial Sizing Die lube on rifle cases, and simply wipe them with a paper towel after sizing.

Don

Same here. A quick wipe with a shop rag and they're good to go.

 

[DeadFlies]

I use Mink Oil for my 30-30 reloads and I just leave them as they are when I'm done. I guess I figured the MO would keep moisture off of the brass and actually prevent corrosion.

 

[Josh45]

Usually, I will wipe the lube off my brass when I am done decapping and sizing.
If I don't feel like doing that, I would just use the tumbler. Since I make small amounts of test rounds, I hardly do the tumbling method and just wipe off.

Sorry, Cant help with the whole tarnish/ corrosion thing.

 

[loose noose]

I haven't, as I tumble them first in corn media, and Nu Finsh car wax, squirt them down with Midway aerosol spray, and proceed to to reload them.

 

[Slamfire]

I never leave the lube on the cases. First and foremost, any residue whether it's lube or some other substances, will have a profound effect on necessary case seize, at the time the cartridge is discharged. With all cartridges, the case will momentarily seize against the chamber walls during the time in which pressures are rising and peak. This is what prevents cases from slamming into the bolt or breach face of a firearm, which is capable of damaging the lugs, and or bolt face. Additionally, anything that is between the case and the chamber / barrel can damage them by causing them to bulge or fracture.

I believe you came about this idea from the Army coverup of the problems of the 1921 Tin Can ammunition. Everything you think you learned from that coverup is false.

I recommend controlling peening by controlling cartridge headspace. Leaving the lube on the case will do nothing adverse to the mechanism, in fact, it improves function in semi automatic mechanisms. The greatest trouble with leaving lube on a case is that oils and greases attract dirt which could scratch the chamber.

The Hispano-Oerlikon was a blow back cannon, used by the Navy from WW2 all the way through Vietnam. One reference states that 150,000 of the things were made and were in service during WW2. It was used on fighter aircraft, bombers, boats and ships. The WW2 era cannons required greased ammunition, post war an automatic oiler was added.

You can see at exactly 2:14 on this WW2 video a Sailor’s hand painting grease on the 20 mm ammunition loading machine for the Oerlikon anti aircraft machine guns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=9dR3h2HdnBQ

Figure from The Machine Gun Vol V Hispano-Oerlikon page 358

http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=347-The-Machine-Gun-(by-George-M.-Chinn)



There were problems if the grease film was inadequate:

http://hnsa.org/doc/gun20mm/part4.htm


ORDNANCE PAMPHLET NO. 911 March 1943

GREASING AMMUNITION
All 20 mm. A.A. Mark 2 and Mark 4 ammunition MUST BE COMPLETELY COVERED WITH A LIGHT COAT OF MINERAL GREASE BEFORE BEING LOADED INTO THE MAGAZINE.

The ammunition is usually packed greased. However, this grease tends to dry off. Whether cartridges are packed greased or not, they should be regreased before loading the magazine.

NOTE-A small amount of mineral grease, applied shortly before firing, to the cartridge case that is visible in the magazine mouthpiece, will assist in preventing a jam in the gun barrel.

Dry ammunition or ammunition with insufficient grease will jam in the gun chamber when fired and extraction will be very difficult, if not impossible. See Page 110 for use of torn cartridge extractor.

While I believe in controlling cartridge headspace through the sizing die and cartridge headspace gages, a heavy lubricant may protect the case from excess headspace:

The Machine Gun, Vol 1 LTC Chinn, 20mm Hispano-Suiza page 589

http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=347-The-Machine-Gun-(by-George-M.-Chinn)


Thus the most vital measurement (headspace) in any automatic weapon was governed by chance in this instance.

An unfortunate discovery was that chamber errors in the gun could be corrected for the moment covering the ammunition case with a heavy lubricant. If the chamber was oversize, it served as a fluid fit to make up the deficiency and, if unsafe headspace existed that would result in case rupture if ammunition was fired dry, then the lubricant allowed the cartridge case to slip back at the start of pressure build up, to take up the slack between the breech lock and the breech lock key. Had this method of “quick fix” not been possible, the Navy would have long ago recognized the seriousness of the situation. In fact, this inexcusable method of correction was in use so long that it was becoming accepted as a satisfactory solution of a necessary nuisance.

 

[RustyFN]

I tumble my rifle rounds after they are loaded to remove the lube. I tumble in 50/50 walnut/cob with Nu Finish car polish. I have some loaded rounds that have been sitting around for a year or so and they still look like the day I loaded them.

 

[buck460XVR]

I tumble my rifle rounds after they are loaded to remove the lube.

Same here.

 

[Clark]

SlamFire1,
I know very little about it and can only parrot what I remember my father saying. He designed military guns and vehicles.
I don't know if any of his patents applied
http://www.ptodirect.com/Results/Patents?query=IN/(Magnuson-Roland-A))

But what I can remember is that he was going to put a Lahti 20mm gun on a vehicle, and the gun would jam if they did not lube the ammo. The boxes of 20mm ammo said right on the outside, "Do not lube ammo". He thought that was funny.

 

[sage5907]

Let me ask you a question. If your car had oil on the paint wouldn't you wash it before you put it in the garage for long term storage? Same goes for my brass. After I go through all the steps of sizing, trimming, etc. I soak the cases in dish soap and water and rense to remove all the oil and residue before I install the primers and reload. It doesn't take long to do this extra step and I am never disappointed in the result.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I just throw them in a ziplock baggy, ammo can , or plastic box and don't worry about it.

 

[gamestalker]

SlamFire1, no I'm not referring to that, though I have heard something to that effect. What I'm referring to is both case seize, and the fact that anything left on the case is not healthy for the chamber / barrel when under pressure. This is mentioned in nearly every reloading book I've read.

And what is proofing? And what is it purpose? My understanding is cartridges are lubed up and then fired from the chamber, as a means of testing that the action is capable of withstanding the full force of the cartridge when it is unsupported by case seize. I'm no expert, I just try to stay within the published recommendations, of those who are experts.

GS

 

[Cleftwynd]

Slamfire, I am not arguing with you at all, as I am quite sure you are more than correct, when it comes to cannons and firearms developed for 2mm greased ammunition.

However, I highly doubt that applies to small arms where the action was not designed to take that kind of bolt thrust, modern cartridges are even designed to refuse bolt thrust. Think of a rear locking bolt, many have been stretched due to excessive bolt thrust, some beyond repair and safe levels.

I myself will not use lubricated brass cartridge ammo in modern rifles for the reasons stated, I like the way my face is and would prefer not to cosmetically change it with rifle shrapnel.