How critical is it to remove lube from reloads?

[berettaprofessor]

I've seen reference to tumbling reloads for a short period to remove case lube. I've never done that, and wonder how critical it is that I should start and what problems I might see if I don't. Primarily, for handgun loads, I use the RCBS Case Slick spray lube http://www.midwayusa.com/product/160333/rcbs-case-slick-spray-lube-4-oz-pump, which has been working pretty nicely and leaves a minimal coating on the case.

Second, related question; If you leave the case lube on for storing rounds, is there any benefit to decreasing brass discoloration/patina?

 

[Reloadron]

I generally start with relatively clean brass so I size the brass (including decapping) then tumble and polish and then finish the reloading process so I seldom have a need to tumble loaded ammunition. That said there are several threads on the subject and the general consensus is most here tumble loaded ammunition for 20 to 30 min to remove lube. I don't leave lube on when storing rounds as I see no reason to. I also have no reservation with tumbling loaded ammo as needed. Tumbling loaded ammunition is one of those things which can be argued indefinitely. Members here have run test and never saw a breakdown in the powder. Manufacturers say do not do it. Whatever works for you.

Ron

 

[berettaprofessor]

I fully believe it's okay to tumble the completed rounds based on all the advocagtes for it, I haven't been tumbling simply because it's one more thing to do and I didn't know that it was necessary.

 

[LiveLife]

RCBS Case Slick spray lube ... If you leave the case lube on for storing rounds, is there any benefit to decreasing brass discoloration/patina?

I haven't used that particular lube so can't comment on its effect on brass discoloration.

I do however clean/polish my brass using walnut media and NuFinish polish. What I have found is that residual polymer left on the brass surface helps with resizing of brass and shine on brass is maintained for years (if stored in airtight containers/5 gallon buckets) even loaded with lubed lead bullets.

As to tumbling loaded rounds, unless the powder used is bad and already breaking down, on multiple threads finished rounds were tumbled for hours to days without signs of powder breaking down and shot fine.

 

[Bart B.]

If you get an OK from a powder company to tumble ammo with their stuff in it, do it. Otherwise,.... . . .

Or, clean the lube off your sized cases before reloading them and it's a lot less messy. If you don't clean the lube off, there'll be more back thrust on the breech face from the case head.

 

[david bachelder]

If I do anything, I'll wipe it off with a clean towel and call it a day.

I use the alcohol (red bottle Heet) and Lanolin as a lube. It wipes off easily.

Most of the time I do nothing and I haven't had any problems.

 

[ulflyer]

Been loading 45acp, 38spl, for years, useing mostly Hornady One Shot spray lube, and never cleaned any off afterwards. Some of these reloads have sat around for several years and shot fine recently when I began shooting more often and wanted to use up the old stuff. These were however, casual target loads, but they seemed as good as any current stuff I've loaded.

 

[Rule3]

I use diluted LEE lube in alcohol and spritz all my brass. I do not remove any of it. It is heavier on my 223 brass and still do not take it off.

If it was the heavier wax type I supposed that would need to come off.

 

[berettaprofessor]

clean the lube off your sized cases before reloading them and it's a lot less messy

Bart B., the above practice would kinda negate the benefits of a turret or progressive press.....if I have to pull them out of the press after resizing, I might as well be on a single stage.

Glad to see that most aren't removing the lube.

 

[burrhead]

"the above practice would kinda negate the benefits of a turret or progressive press"

Not really. The only rifle round I load on a progressive is 223. Size and prime on one pass, tumble off the lube, then finish loading on a second pass. Doesn't take that much longer and I don't get Imperial Wax everywhere.

But, whatever works for you.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Trying to figure out why you are wanting to tumble lube your cases. For most handgun brass, very little lube is needed. For straight wall cases with carbide dies I lube every fifth round if I use any lube at all. A light spray on the neck of cases standing in a block. Not hard to do unless your using an automatic feeder. A little lube on the neck is all you need, anything more is a waste that gums up the dies.

For bottleneck rounds I lube every case with enough lube to cover the neck. Still don't have enough lube to remove. Only time I tumble the loaded round is when I form the case, such as making .300 AAC brass where I use Imperial.

As with everything, YMMV.

 

[25cschaefer]

Lubricant on the case does increase bolt thrust, the same as a highly polished chamber. The brass needs to be able to grip the chamber wall, if it is lubricated it will not be able to as effectively upon expanding. While it may not be critical in the short run or with moderate loads, it may lead to premature failure of the firearm. It is a necessary step to de-lube the cases before firing, if you want your firearms to last as long as they should.

 

[Duvel]

I: Tumble in walnut, rotary sift, dump brass in gal ziplock, couple pumps Cabela's in the bag (usually not directly on the brass, spray on the inside of the bag itself), seal & shake for a minute - then go about the business of making all these loose components into something that goes bang

 

[Steve C]

For I lube my cases with die wax when needed for rifle and occasionally every so often when using carbide pistol dies. Usually I don't bother removing any of the lube as the cases don't need much lube on them. When sizing heavy belted magnum rifle cartridges where a little extra lube is sometimes needed I'll wipe the off with a rag which isn't difficult when loading small amounts of rifle ammo.

 

[Bart B.]

If you can shoot your stuff accurate enough, you'll see some horizontal shot stringing when a 2-lug bolt face isn't square with the chamber axis and the high point on an out of square case head with lube on its body smacks the high point on the bolt face when it's on the right or left side and slams against it with more force than a clean case. Tests 50 years ago proved this happens.

Otherwise, you won't.

 

[Greg Mercurio]

Lubricant on the case does increase bolt thrust, the same as a highly polished chamber. The brass needs to be able to grip the chamber wall, if it is lubricated it will not be able to as effectively upon expanding. While it may not be critical in the short run or with moderate loads, it may lead to premature failure of the firearm. It is a necessary step to de-lube the cases before firing, if you want your firearms to last as long as they should.

I'm curious about "increased bolt thrust". Can someone please explain it?

 

[Bart B.]

Bolt thrust means the force the case head puts on the bolt (or breech in doubles) face from peak pressure in the case. The less friction between case and chamber, the more the back half of the case will press the case head against where it stops.

Search the web for "rifle bolt thrust" then check the link's information.

 

[Lj1941]

Why lube pistol/handgun cases when using carbide dies? Are you all loading 357 Sigs or 762x25 Tokarovs? I am not being smart but really want to know. I don't lube cases when using carbide dies. What am I missing?

 

[ulflyer]

I lube simply because it is much easier, and smoother, when I pull the handle on my 550's. I do have carbide dies and load a variety of straight wall pistol cases. Try it, you might like it.

 

[Reloadron]

Why lube pistol/handgun cases when using carbide dies? Are you all loading 357 Sigs or 762x25 Tokarovs? I am not being smart but really want to know. I don't lube cases when using carbide dies. What am I missing?

Can't speak for others but:
1. I do not see case lube as all that expensive.
2. I have no reason to hurry any steps as I have all the time in the world to make ammunition.
3. I like the feel of less resistance on the press handle. As mentioned it just seems a nicer smoother transition.

I also maintain my dies with regular cleaning.

Ron

 

[berettaprofessor]

Why lube pistol/handgun cases when using carbide dies?

Yes, what Reloadron and ulflyer said...it simply makes the press easier and smoother when I pull the handle.

 

[Dain Bramage]

Are you all loading 357 Sigs or 762x25 Tokarovs?

Well, I do load 7.62x25mm, which is why I have Hornady One Shot.

Recently, I was having problems with new Starline .357 Mag cases wrinkling. Found some references online that said Starline can be "too clean". I use the One Shot lightly, and have not had any problems since.

 

[fotheringill]

I wipe. If you can find a powder, bullet or case company that says it is ok to tumble loaded rounds, sell all of your stock in that company.

 

[OilyPablo]

So how bad is the chemical reaction with these lubes and powder?

 

[boom boom]

Bolt thrust can be a problem particularly in a high pressure round--it is the same reason that you would not shoot a rifle with a well oiled chamber. Oil or a wax lube that becomes a liquid with heat or pressure is not compressible--brass cases try to expand to fit the chamber. If the expanding brass case tries to expand into non-compressible lubricant, the brass has no choice where to transfer the force of the powder gasses--backwards into the bolt which obviously affects the bolt locking lugs as well as those of the receiver. You will get somewhat of a similar effect if you try to polish your rifle chamber to a mirror finish. The friction between the brass of the cartridge and the chamber reduces the amount of thrust heading toward the bolt. Lube on the case will reduce that friction. A way to clean the cases of lube is simply wipe the case with a rag wetted with odorless mineral spirits after resizing.

Now, just to be contrarian, a small amount of lube can be helpful in one circumstance, if the rifle's chamber is roughly machined and/or pitted. In that case, a very slight amount of lube can ease extraction of the case after firing. Have an old war time Mk. 4, No. 1 Enfield that the chamber cutter apparently was worn or operating too fast when cutting the chamber as it left visible machining rings in the chamber but otherwise the rifle headspaces and shoots fine without stretching the brass. Using NuFinish/mineral spirits in walnut media to tumble the brass when cleaning it helps in extraction.