Do you think black powder will always be safe?

[RDCL]

....Safe from the anti-crowd, that is.

Anyone think it's only a matter of time before they go after the muzzle-loaders too?
....Or...will black powder guns become the LAST and only example of personal individual freedom left for us?

I'm not talking about now.....but in the future, I think it's a sure bet that they'll go after everything that fires a projectile fast enough to put an eye out!

I personally am not into muzzle loaders and I appologize if this is the wrong forum......but I figure the last thing guys in the black powder forum will be discussing is gun rights.


Russ

 

[Neal]

In my humble opinion NOTHING is safe. I was recently talking to a friend about how soon reloading components may be heavily taxed or banned.

Join the NRA!

 

[kirklandkie]

i estimate that black powder rifles will/would be the last to go. in the end the evil Lib...people in congress would probably not outlaw black powder rifles themselves, they'd say that you can only buy black powder in amounts no more then .87 grams because above that it would be considered an explosive and thus could be used by Terrorist Organizations who also happen to shop at your local gun store.
/end rant

-kirk

 

[jnyork]

What Neal said.

 

[Pulse]

i guess it depends on what kind of muzzleloaders?


the ones used to fire Copper CnC machined subcaliber sabots over a charge of semi-smockless powder, toped with Scope and maybe even a bipod? yeah.. those probably will be targeted by a ban.

actual blackpowder muzzleloaders? as far as i know, not even the UK banned those.. so they might be somewhat safe.

 

[RDCL]

not even the UK banned those....

Now THAT I did not know!
Can guys in the UK own cap & ball pistols too, I wonder?

Russ

 

[Officers'Wife]

I can see black powder being banned for civilian use. I see copies of Weingard's and Tenney's books bringing top dollar the day afterward.

Selena

 

[CoRoMo]

They'll go after smokeless powder first and then us reloaders will have to handload our cartridges with Triple7.

That is when they'll come after all black powder.

 

[RDCL]

Cap & ball revolver enthusiast will have a good argument though......a VERY good argument.

In my mind, I cannot recall a single news story in my lifetime (I'm 50).....in which such a revolver was ever used in a "stick-up" or murder.....of course, the reason being that the average thug would'nt have the knowledge, much less the patience....in how to properly load and prepare such a gun.

So....here is an example of how ignorant the anti-crowd is. Without wanting to give them another reason, WE know that a cap & ball gun can be just as effective in a hold-up crime.....yet it NEVER happens!!

....and this is a type of firearm with little or no restrictive laws applied to it. So the idiots will never learn or accept that this country never did or never WILL have a "gun problem".....but a problem with some of its people and personal responsibility.

Russ

 

[Shung]

Nobody is getting my Walker grip first !

 

[fireman 9731]

Black powder is already more heavily regulated than smokeless because it is considered an explosive...

 

[Jim K]

Several years ago, Life magazine ran about 20 pages of vicious diatribe supporting a gun ban. (Not an AWB, or a handgun ban, but a total ban on all guns.)

One sentence read, "Collectors hoard muskets from as far back as the Revolutionary War, still as dangerous and deadly as the day they were made; they too, must be seized and destroyed."

Any questions?

Jim

 

[Ed Ames]

I have heard politicians talk seriously about the "deadly 50 caliber rifles being sold every day without background checks of even a paper trail."

You figure it out.

 

[6_gunner]

They'll go after the powder itself long before they go after the guns.

Genuine black powder is already regulated to the point where none of the gun shops in my area bother stocking it.

It wouldn't be a very big step for them to regulate all powder in the same way.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Cap & ball revolver enthusiast will have a good argument though......a VERY good argument.

I strongly doubt that US criminals used many FAMAS, AR-70s, or Steyr AUGs, but GWB cut them off from importation all the same.

I'm not predicting a BP ban, just noting that "not used by criminals" really hasn't helped other guns in the past.

In my mind, I cannot recall a single news story in my lifetime (I'm 50).....in which such a revolver was ever used in a "stick-up" or murder.....of course, the reason being that the average thug would'nt have the knowledge, much less the patience....in how to properly load and prepare such a gun.

I certainly wouldn't say that. Criminals have no problem learning to break locks, hotwire cars, cook up meth, etc. It's pretty condescending to think that they're somehow incapable of figuring out how a Colt Navy works.

There were plenty of thugs and low-lifes in the 19th Century, and they figured it out just fine.

If they aren't using them now, it's because there's no real advantage to it since they can easily acquire smokeless revolvers and semi-autos. If somehow all those disappeared and extremely tight border controls prevented their being smuggled in, yet BP guns were still legal, I don't doubt they'd use those.


Come to think of it, how unregulated are C&B revolvers in the UK? Completely, or just "as hard to get as a .22 rifle"? Any cases of them being used in the UK? I know I've heard of UK cases of airguns being converted to fire .22LR, so there are some folks that apparently can't afford smuggled Czech submachineguns and instead have to improvise.

 

[alemonkey]

No, it won't be safe. There have already been attempts to ban .50 cal muzzleloaders.

The anti's will never rest until all guns are banned. That's why we can never rest either.

 

[Hk91-762mm]

Im buying Black powder I have several safe locations to keep it.
YES -I think they will go after it saying it can be used as an explosive and =Bring down a Jetliner!! Yaddaa yaddaa And on

 

[Zoogster]

Nothing is safe if you let the line in the sand move.

Can guys in the UK own cap & ball pistols too, I wonder?

Black powder arms are more restricted in many parts of Europe than smokeless are here. Registration, approval, pistol club membership for X number of months, license etc

If smokeless had been heavily restricted out of the reach of the non-jackboots then blackpowder would be quick to follow. Because that is what those who still abided by the oppression would switch to, meaning they would become very prevalent.

In my mind, I cannot recall a single news story in my lifetime (I'm 50).....in which such a revolver was ever used in a "stick-up" or murder.....of course, the reason being that the average thug would'nt have the knowledge, much less the patience....in how to properly load and prepare such a gun.

Not many people own or use black powder arms. Prior to black powder hunting seasons they were rare.
That in turn means most thieves stealing guns that they use in crimes are not stealing black powder weapons.
If on the other hand black powder guns were all most people had, then you better believe they would be widely used in crimes because they would be widely stolen. Cut down long arms would also make a comeback.
It is not because they are rare, it is because they are not often stolen.
'G' homey would probably laugh at little homey when he showed him such a gun as well. Can't discount peer pressure.


Black powder arms are as capable of killing a man in a crime as other arms. The number of crime related murders would be the same whether with smokeless or black powder.
The criminals of the 1800s didn't have too much trouble with black powder, and the literacy rate was much lower back then.

In fact in such a situation the black market would probably encourage importation and fabrication of additional arms. Meaning full auto military arms would be more common on the black market.
The UK is an island. If you start comparing other European nations like those that recieved black market imports from the Balkans and other hotspots then you see the same trend. Where arms are severely restricted our of the reach of most the black market has more full autos and military gear.
People try to work within the law when possible. As long as there is legal gun owners working within the law criminals will steal, (or kidnap and force to open safes etc) guns they own. If the legal guns are just long arms, the criminals will simply chop them down to conceal them.
When the law is extremely oppressive the black market does not consist of stolen legal arms, because there is not many. It starts to see a lot more imported full auto firearms and other types not subject to the restrictions the kind that would legaly be sold in the country are.
If most guns were banned in the US I am sure you would start seeing a lot of imports from south of the border and even overseas.


The UK are islands, restricting what flows in and out of islands is easier. Controlling the mentality of the people, thier education, and installing survelience that covers most areas is also a smaller task.
It is a test island.
Borders are small and limited.

Now that I think about it though. If they ever secure our borders well enough they can have better luck at restricting items which otherwise will simply be smuggled in to meet demand like drugs are today.

 

[rickomatic]

In my mind, I cannot recall a single news story in my lifetime (I'm 50).....in which such a revolver was ever used in a "stick-up" or murder.....of course, the reason being that the average thug would'nt have the knowledge, much less the patience....in how to properly load and prepare such a gun.

Actually, I just saw a video of a convenience store guy getting shot with one. It was on "Most Shocking" or some show like that. It wasn't a robber, but an assault on the clerk by some disgruntled customer or something. Guy walks in points what looks to be an 1860 Remington Army and fired at the clerk. A huge blast of smoke made it pretty clear it was black powder. Luckily though the clerk pushed the gun aside just as the guy shot it point blank, and he ended up with a superficial arm wound. The bad guy was caught later.

 

[catfish101]

That is hard to say. I know guys that make it for shooting. It isn't hard to make and is fairly safe to fool with. You have to use some common sense. It isn't like TNT at all, as far as being unstable.

There is a skill at making good powder for shooting. The right wood for your charcoal is very important.

 

[kentucky bucky]

They (a committee that included BHO) tried once to make blackpowder so hard and expensive to transport, it would have surely run it off the market, because nobody could afford it. So many people raised he!! that they backed down. I believe that Republicans were in power then. Now with the "screw the rednecks" attitude in the White House, it and much worse could rear it's ugly head at any time.

 

[BigBlock]

I can make black powder and lead bullets in my garage from readily available, non-suspicious ingredients.

Beyond that building a muzzleloader wouldn't be much harder.



Try to outlaw that, b****!

 

[scrat]

hhahahhahha What Big Block Said.

 

[Zoogster]

can make black powder and lead bullets in my garage from readily available, non-suspicious ingredients.

Beyond that building a muzzleloader wouldn't be much harder.



Try to outlaw that, b****!

In most of the world purchasing chemicals most Americans take for granted is much more restricted.
Americans had the freedom to purchase, build and make most things for most of our history.
That has changed though in more recent times.

If they ever got to that point they would more than likely make things like saltpeter a restricted chemical, and greatly restrict products it was used in.
Just like they did with chemicals people were using to make meth.
They have also been greatly restricting components they feel could be used in large attacks by terrorists since 9/11.
Most nitrates are included, and all sales of such chemicals especialy in large amounts you can be sure are flagged.

You can make your own, but you wouldn't be legaly purchasing pure chemicals in bulk from a legal supply source, or buying things off the shelf primarily composed of it.
They would pressure off the shelf products to use something else and change thier recipes. They would also likely introduce binders and other chemicals in things that still used it to make processing such products it into an effective powder very difficult.

Fortunately you can still make it, they once had similar setups throughout europe, even requiring them in England.

Saltpeter plant:
Long rows of beds with porous walls(C), filled with a mixture of vegetable wastes, blood and dung as nitrogen source plus lime or ash to promote nitrification.
Lime controls an optimum pH-value of 7.2 to 7.8. The porous walls of the beds allow an easy access of oxigen.
In building (B) the contents of the ripe salpeter-beds were leached and saltpeter kristallised.
(A) A vat, collecting rainwater from the roof.

Additionaly legume bacteria are quite well known to help nitrification of the soil. Soybeans , beans, clover etc Never look at rolling fields of clover the same way again!
In fact just sewage can be used to create it.
That is right, you can make gunpowder from your own dung!
Near sources of animal dung you can often find crystals of it.

Of course if you are going to be making it why make black powder when you can use it to make nitric acid and just make your own smokeless!

 

[ComradeBurg]

Here in Minnesota we already have strict laws on black powder itself. Legally you are limited to the number of pounds you can have in your house (it's somewhere between one to three).

You can also only transport one pound of it in a vehicle without licenses.

So no I don' think black powder is safe. Once there are no other legal guns it'll come under fire.