Creature
Member
Bingo.
Do you think it's okay to give/loan police deparments ammo?
- Thread starter sharpshooter74
- Start date
- Status
Bingo.
45_auto
Member
tennjed said:
I don't know where you are in Mississippi, but you must not have been around when hurricane Katrina hit south Mississippi in 2005.
I was a sheriff in St. Tammany Parish (county everywhere else), Louisiana at the time. We're right on the state line, between New Orleans and Mississippi.
The New Orleans cops actively confiscating firearms made the big news:
http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/see-police-confiscate-guns-from-americans/
There was very little coverage of the damage to Mississippi, where the hurricane actually hit and did the most damage (New Orleans damage was by indirect flooding, not specifically by the hurricane winds and ocean waves like Mississippi). What also didn't make the news was the cops in small towns in Mississippi like Long Beach, Waveland, Bay St. Louis, etc. doing the same thing about firearms as their New Orleans counterparts.
If you believe that the cops around you are any different than the rest of the country, you're going to be very surprised by what the majority do if they're tasked with enforcing an unpopular law.
I heard the same kind of things about cops not enforcing laws back in the early 60's. There were some very UNPOPULAR civil rights laws passed that many southern cops, sheriffs, governors, etc, swore not to enforce. But when it came down to a choice between not getting a paycheck or enforcing the unpopular law, the need to eat, feed the kids, pay the mortgage, etc, meant that the need for a paycheck won.
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I loaned 1k rounds of 9mm to my local sheriff several weeks ago but it was not for departmental use. They have enough ammo for their own needs but they also offer a free training session to new CC folks once a month. As hard as it may be to believe there were quite a few people that could not take the class because they could not find ANY ammo for practice and there is some regulation prohibiting the sheriff from selling the department ammo. He sold all the ammo, only 20 boxes, in the first week and paid me back what I told him I wanted. He added $5 per box to do some advertising of the class.
That was all I was willing to spare and I wouldn't give him any other calibers because I just don't have any extra on hand. As far as the sheriff knowing how much ammo I have on hand? We do a "kid's deer hunt" on my property every Fall and shoot several guns over the weekend all on my dime so he already knows what I have. I taught him in HS and he will have a car here in 5 minutes if I call so I am willing to help out if I can.
Local police force? Not likely. I know the chief and wouldn't trust him with a 50 round box of .22. He would try to load it in a 45.
That was all I was willing to spare and I wouldn't give him any other calibers because I just don't have any extra on hand. As far as the sheriff knowing how much ammo I have on hand? We do a "kid's deer hunt" on my property every Fall and shoot several guns over the weekend all on my dime so he already knows what I have. I taught him in HS and he will have a car here in 5 minutes if I call so I am willing to help out if I can.
Local police force? Not likely. I know the chief and wouldn't trust him with a 50 round box of .22. He would try to load it in a 45.
MedWheeler
Member
I have never based whether or not I would do something for someone on whether or not I believed they would return the favor. As a volunteer firefighter many years ago, I never wondered if any of the people to whose homes I responded would in turn ever race to mine in an emergency.
That being said, I've run some interesting scenarios through my head, but never has it occurred to me that someone might have to loan a law enforcement agency ammunition. I could see doing it for an individual officer at the scene of an incident, but I will never have enough on hand to loan to an agency of any size (I might replace Deputy Fife's round if he uses it.)
There is the Ohio wild-animal shoot incident. Seems I recall that a retired deputy showed up with a thousand rounds of handloaded .223 ammunition to help replenish what the officers/deputies were using up trying to put down dozens of large wild carnivores that had been turned loose form a private zoo.
That being said, I've run some interesting scenarios through my head, but never has it occurred to me that someone might have to loan a law enforcement agency ammunition. I could see doing it for an individual officer at the scene of an incident, but I will never have enough on hand to loan to an agency of any size (I might replace Deputy Fife's round if he uses it.)
There is the Ohio wild-animal shoot incident. Seems I recall that a retired deputy showed up with a thousand rounds of handloaded .223 ammunition to help replenish what the officers/deputies were using up trying to put down dozens of large wild carnivores that had been turned loose form a private zoo.
I wouldn't. The more pressure on them as well maybe the ATF will let the foreign ammo come in so we don't shoot/hoard as much of the 'good stuff' that the LEOs could use.
Last I heard (yesterday) some is starting to trickle through.
Last I heard (yesterday) some is starting to trickle through.
CoRoMo
Member
I suppose if the the law directed them to confiscate someone's guns, they'd enforce that law and it wouldn't matter who that someone is or why they aren't allowed to possess firearms.
As the list of prohibited persons slowly continues to receive pressure to grow, the eventual point will be that people everywhere would be denied their 2nd Amendment rights because of arbitrarily defined behavior. And it would become normal and widely accepted in our society. Law enforcement will simply be enforcing the law that day. The law might be blatantly unconstitutional -much of it definitely is already- but LE officers are not the ones passing the laws, they are charged with enforcing them. So when they knock on doors and hold an arrest warrant or search warrant in hand, it won't matter why they are confiscating guns that day, or who it is they are about to disarm; they are enforcing the law and the guy whose door they are knocking on "must have done something wrong" to be in this predicament.
Never say never.
SabbathWolf
member
Cops have a sworn duty to "serve and protect."
They already know they need ammo to do that.
That's what my taxes already pay for.
If they cannot even manage their own ammo supply, then it makes me wonder how many other things they are mismanaging as well.
Instead of contributing to and enabling their incompetence...it makes more sense to get rid of them and get somebody else in there that knows what they are doing.
That's exactly why our local sheriff got his butt voted out of office last November and replaced right along with some of the deputies as well.
I may live in the country, but....we don't have any sympathy for people who waste our hard-earned tax dollars on stupid stuff while running around like Barney Fife with only one bullet in their shirt pocket.
They already know they need ammo to do that.
That's what my taxes already pay for.
If they cannot even manage their own ammo supply, then it makes me wonder how many other things they are mismanaging as well.
Instead of contributing to and enabling their incompetence...it makes more sense to get rid of them and get somebody else in there that knows what they are doing.
That's exactly why our local sheriff got his butt voted out of office last November and replaced right along with some of the deputies as well.
I may live in the country, but....we don't have any sympathy for people who waste our hard-earned tax dollars on stupid stuff while running around like Barney Fife with only one bullet in their shirt pocket.
CoRoMo
Member
I know the decals on their cars say so, but this in fact is not actually true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales
SabbathWolf
member
In that case....then THAT is even MORE of a reason NOT to give your ammo to people who aren't even required to do their jobs.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well...that's at least two wildly unsubstantiated claims in one sentence.
Bruno2
Member
I am saying the range time each officer puts in is probably excessive. I don't burn up that much ammo and I am a fairly proficient shooter.
You know when gas and diesel starting going through the roof I stopped driving so much . I limited my trips and did multiple things when I had to drive. I plan my routes so that I can make multiple stops and destinations as efficiently as possible. So the police need to limit their range trips , do more dry fire drills instead of live fire and try shoot a minimum amount of ammo. Maybe some depts. need to require their officers to provide their own practice ammo. Nobody has ever accused a gov entity of being efficient or fiscally responsible so I don't see why I should donate or provide extra tax dollars to fund any of this. They need to cut down on high speed chases and other nonsense that watses money and suck it up and buy ammo from the resalers on line like everybody else is having to do.
Somewhere in the world there is an abundance of ammo for sale at reasonable prices and they should try to find it.
You know when gas and diesel starting going through the roof I stopped driving so much . I limited my trips and did multiple things when I had to drive. I plan my routes so that I can make multiple stops and destinations as efficiently as possible. So the police need to limit their range trips , do more dry fire drills instead of live fire and try shoot a minimum amount of ammo. Maybe some depts. need to require their officers to provide their own practice ammo. Nobody has ever accused a gov entity of being efficient or fiscally responsible so I don't see why I should donate or provide extra tax dollars to fund any of this. They need to cut down on high speed chases and other nonsense that watses money and suck it up and buy ammo from the resalers on line like everybody else is having to do.
Somewhere in the world there is an abundance of ammo for sale at reasonable prices and they should try to find it.
Deaf Smith
Member
No. N... O... got that?
Now if it was a small LEO group (say your town's police force, 10 or so cops) and you knew everyone of them and they were NOT LIBERALS... I might see helping them out as I would a buddy, but some big department?
NO. They ain't your friends folks, remember that, they will raid your place in a heart beat if it is to their advantage (and use asset forfeiture to take what you have.)
Deaf
Steve CT
Member
Loan ammunition to the same PD that has:
1) Always required additional documentation over and above the state requirements for Carry Permits
2) Reduced the intake appointments for Carry Permit applications to the point that wait times are now up to several months just to submit your application. There are now 3-4 appointments available weekly for intake, processing time is unknown, all in contravention of State regulations.
3) Probably cannot protect me as well as I can protect me, unless I happen to be standing in the Dunkin' Donuts where they are lined up for their free coffee.
I have a 2-3 year supply of ammunition for my personal needs, if the local PD was not similarly foresighted, well, I'm not surprised I guess
1) Always required additional documentation over and above the state requirements for Carry Permits
2) Reduced the intake appointments for Carry Permit applications to the point that wait times are now up to several months just to submit your application. There are now 3-4 appointments available weekly for intake, processing time is unknown, all in contravention of State regulations.
3) Probably cannot protect me as well as I can protect me, unless I happen to be standing in the Dunkin' Donuts where they are lined up for their free coffee.
I have a 2-3 year supply of ammunition for my personal needs, if the local PD was not similarly foresighted, well, I'm not surprised I guess
if the one in my town that's a nice and decent guy (also is the one that handles the permits) were at the range with me and he didn't have alot or enough ammo to practice with I'd probably spot him at least a mag or 2's worth.
the rest though, including the chief... I'll keep it HR and just say 'no.'
the rest though, including the chief... I'll keep it HR and just say 'no.'
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well, if that's the case, it would literally be the first ... and ONLY ... police department I've ever heard of that one could say that about! By a LONG shot.
Serious question. You never have and never will have any reason for police assistance?
I frequent some very left wing liberal music message boards from time to time. Most of what I see there (not music related) makes me sick. But most of them have more respect for law enforcement then some people here. If you want to know one reason the country is in the shape it is in, look at the way people ridicule and disrespect the police. Too many people confuse disagreement with Washington with a hate for LEOs.
You don't like the laws, fine try to change them, but don't blame the people risking their tails to keep us safe. Also people should not be surprised to see kids disrespecting teachers and adults. Hard to expect them to respect anyone when mom and dad act this way.
Sorry for the rant
Ignition Override
Member
Yes, but would the department still be motivated to improve its ammo supply much better in the future, to help avoid a situation such as what police experienced in the famous West Hollywood shootout, or the West Memphis ambush which killed two officers in their car when they stopped the father/son 'sovereign citizen' team?
A department in or near Jasper AL will train, or do recurrent training with shooting simulators. This was in their newspaper about a week ago.
The issue in West Hollywood was having firepower for the unique situation (scum bags wearing body armor), other than shotguns or handguns, but fill in my blanks. A few officers went into a gun store for more firepower. They must have remembered "the Terminator" gun shop scene?
I want any Police or Sheriff's Dept to have the proficiency to be able to neutralize and if necessary destroy any human filth which tries to harm them.
TennJed: Well-spoken.
A department in or near Jasper AL will train, or do recurrent training with shooting simulators. This was in their newspaper about a week ago.
The issue in West Hollywood was having firepower for the unique situation (scum bags wearing body armor), other than shotguns or handguns, but fill in my blanks. A few officers went into a gun store for more firepower. They must have remembered "the Terminator" gun shop scene?
I want any Police or Sheriff's Dept to have the proficiency to be able to neutralize and if necessary destroy any human filth which tries to harm them.
TennJed: Well-spoken.
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MJU1983
Member
Why would anyone support an organization who takes an Oath to the US Constitution (and their own state), and then disregards it?
Seems like a good time to remind everyone:
Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
And when they do screw up, as they often do...what are the repercussions?
Sovereign immunity in the United States
James Duane, Professor at Regent Law School gives you an invaluable piece of advice in the below video: "Don't talk to the police." To keep it honest he gives the second part of the lecture over to a police detective. I wonder if the detective agrees or disagrees with the professor?
Seems like a good time to remind everyone:
Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
And when they do screw up, as they often do...what are the repercussions?
Sovereign immunity in the United States
James Duane, Professor at Regent Law School gives you an invaluable piece of advice in the below video: "Don't talk to the police." To keep it honest he gives the second part of the lecture over to a police detective. I wonder if the detective agrees or disagrees with the professor?
Carl N. Brown
Member
Do you think it's okay to give/loan police deparments ammo?
Yes.
Why no? I have had friends and relatives in LE. In fact, they were the ones who converted me from a sporting purposes-collector-civilian markmanship practice Fuddite to a self-defense and right-to-carry true believer.
Yes.
Why no? I have had friends and relatives in LE. In fact, they were the ones who converted me from a sporting purposes-collector-civilian markmanship practice Fuddite to a self-defense and right-to-carry true believer.
76shuvlinoff
Member
Only if I personally know and RESPECT the officer in need.
Loan/sell to a "department"?
No.
.
Loan/sell to a "department"?
No.
.
FROGO207
Member
IMHO do as you wish here. The local officers here do show up at the local range at times and I part with ammo and associated personal firearms to let them shoot my reloads within reason, same as I would for the average Joe/Jill shooter from the neighborhood. Now the departments need to have ammo to qualify with/use on patrol that my tax dollars should have already provided. So then no on that respect as they would appear poorly managed an inept. I will not punish an individual LEO, who BTW is just an average citizen when not at work, for the ineptitude of a government agency trying to suck more $$$ out of the public.:banghead: The LEO around here all are good people and they already know me so I am not worried what they are going to do.
The local officers here do show up at the local range at times and I part with ammo and associated personal firearms to let them shoot my reloads within reason, same as I would for the average Joe/Jill shooter from the neighborhood. Now the departments need to have ammo to qualify with/use on patrol that my tax dollars should have already provided. So then no on that respect as they would appear poorly managed an inept. I will not punish an individual LEO, who BTW is just an average citizen when not at work, for the ineptitude of a government agency trying to suck more $$$ out of the public.:banghead: The LEO around here all are good people and they already know me so I am not worried what they are going to do.- Status
