Does any1 own this shotgun??
- Thread starter Stringer
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Its just an after market add on to an 870.
I consider those to tools of beginners and experts. Beginners buy them because they see them on TV or movies and think they are cool, but then they shoot them and find they can't hit nothing. So they retreat to more mundane set ups and find they do better.
Only really really good shooters can make this set up work for anything other than blowing doors open. So by you asking, I would assume that you are not highly trained or experienced, (and there's nothing wrong with that) so I would suggest you try the standard 18 inch barrel with a regular stock.
I consider those to tools of beginners and experts. Beginners buy them because they see them on TV or movies and think they are cool, but then they shoot them and find they can't hit nothing. So they retreat to more mundane set ups and find they do better.
Only really really good shooters can make this set up work for anything other than blowing doors open. So by you asking, I would assume that you are not highly trained or experienced, (and there's nothing wrong with that) so I would suggest you try the standard 18 inch barrel with a regular stock.
The Deer Hunter
Member
I sure wouldn't use that.
I don't feel like explaining much so all I have to say is, I sure wouldn't want to shoot 00 buck out of that.
I don't feel like explaining much so all I have to say is, I sure wouldn't want to shoot 00 buck out of that.
ReadyontheRight
Member
I had a Winchester Defender that looked just like it that I got inexpensively. I could get a little control with the help of the front pistol grip, but shooting from the hip is pretty worthless - just for fun & games or VERY close quarters. Conceivably, you could "walk in" your shots from the hip at a shooting range where you could see where you're hitting, but I would rather make sure I can hit my first shot. I could not imagine getting enough practice with one of these to actually get good enough with a first shot - and that's with trap loads. For self-defense, I would prefer a more hefty round, which equals more painful on the wrists and even less likely to get in the practice rotation.
I added a nice, short wood stock and then eventually replaced the front pistol grip with a regular wood one. Now I can aim and hit with a nice short, easily-maneuverable 8-round shotgun.
The only possible benefit I see in such a rig is that it can be easier to transport and look less gun-like than a shotgun you can put to your shoulder. You can solve this by getting either a 6-position stock (like on an M4 rifle) or a folding stock.
If you do get this, make sure you get a regular stock set as well and try both.
I added a nice, short wood stock and then eventually replaced the front pistol grip with a regular wood one. Now I can aim and hit with a nice short, easily-maneuverable 8-round shotgun.
The only possible benefit I see in such a rig is that it can be easier to transport and look less gun-like than a shotgun you can put to your shoulder. You can solve this by getting either a 6-position stock (like on an M4 rifle) or a folding stock.
If you do get this, make sure you get a regular stock set as well and try both.
Heavy Metal Hero
Member
Stockless shotguns are more prone to short stroking and are inherently harder to fire accurately. And no, it isn't impossible to miss.
Jorg Nysgerrig
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Actually, that looks like a factory job.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/premier_dealer_exclusives/model_870_express_7-shot.asp
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/premier_dealer_exclusives/model_870_express_7-shot.asp
macadore
Member
I put a set of those grips on my 870, shot it once, and took them back off. They made the 870 a very impractical unpleasant firearm. They transfer all the recoil to the wrists. With the regular stock, you can take some of the recoil on the shoulder as well. Shot from the waist, the recoil with regular stocks can be absorbed by the arms and shoulders. Accuracy for follow up shots with the pistol grips was nonexistent.
Pistol grips on shotguns are for "Mall Ninjas". These things are useless and don't help at all with making accurate shots. "Aiming in the general direction" is for retards. You actually do have to aim with the barrel sight if you want to hit a target with a shotgun. Lose the pistol grip, put a good buttstock on this and it would make a fine HD shotgun.
ReadyontheRight
Member
Now THAT is a fine shotgun.
Sorry, but I'm tired of hearing how shotguns such as these are "useless" and only for "mall ninjas." Give me a break. Everyone reads "expert" comments that these guns are useless and then they repeat it so they can sound like an expert.
You use one of these guns for home defense, and it is certainly a heck of a lot more usefull than trying to drag around a stocked shotgun or trying to aim a .357 in a dark hallway when your heart is pumping a mile a minute.
This 12-guage shotgun is EXTREMELY effective for close in shooting, like you'd experience in typical home defense. Recoil hurts your wrists? Grow up. You aren't duck hunting, you're defending your home. A 12-guage not effective? If you can't hit a man with this shotgun at 25 feet -- even from your hip -- you certainly can't do it with a stocked shotgun. Think you're going to have time to shoulder a weapon and sight it when someone is coming at you in your dark house? Keep reading all those books by the experts. The same ones who blather on an on about which round is more effective, a .38 or a 9mm. That's hobby crap; it has nothing to do with defending your home against an intruder.
And I and several others used pistol-grip shotguns in the jungles of Vietnam, and they served us well. I've kept a similar gun for years. After putting 50 rounds through it when I first got it, it's rested comfortably under my bed. I take it out every so often and shoot it, and even at my age I can still handle it just fine.
So unless you have actually used one of these to defend yourself, drop out of the discussion. And, for the record, just because you're a cop or a fireamrs instructor doesn't mean you know squat about using these shotguns.
You use one of these guns for home defense, and it is certainly a heck of a lot more usefull than trying to drag around a stocked shotgun or trying to aim a .357 in a dark hallway when your heart is pumping a mile a minute.
This 12-guage shotgun is EXTREMELY effective for close in shooting, like you'd experience in typical home defense. Recoil hurts your wrists? Grow up. You aren't duck hunting, you're defending your home. A 12-guage not effective? If you can't hit a man with this shotgun at 25 feet -- even from your hip -- you certainly can't do it with a stocked shotgun. Think you're going to have time to shoulder a weapon and sight it when someone is coming at you in your dark house? Keep reading all those books by the experts. The same ones who blather on an on about which round is more effective, a .38 or a 9mm. That's hobby crap; it has nothing to do with defending your home against an intruder.
And I and several others used pistol-grip shotguns in the jungles of Vietnam, and they served us well. I've kept a similar gun for years. After putting 50 rounds through it when I first got it, it's rested comfortably under my bed. I take it out every so often and shoot it, and even at my age I can still handle it just fine.
So unless you have actually used one of these to defend yourself, drop out of the discussion. And, for the record, just because you're a cop or a fireamrs instructor doesn't mean you know squat about using these shotguns.
I'd say this mall ninja, 20 round, pistol gripped shotgun would work find for home defense....
Pistol grips on a shotgun don't make it mall ninja worthy or uncontrollable.
If that were the case why would police or the army have any long guns with pistol grips?
That said if you want a pistol grip on a shotgun etc make sure it has a folding stock so that you can use that when you have a chance.
Look into the Knoxx compstocks. They are great for making it so that can shoot shotguns like pistols. The recoil goes into the grip instead of your wrist.
Remington is outfitting all of their 'tactical' shotguns with Knoxx stocks because of how much they cut down on recoil.
Buy a crappy hunk of plastic grip with no stock and yeah the gun is going to hurt and not work well.
Spend time looking into it and there are a few pistol grip only guns that will work just fine.
Pistol grips on a shotgun don't make it mall ninja worthy or uncontrollable.
If that were the case why would police or the army have any long guns with pistol grips?
That said if you want a pistol grip on a shotgun etc make sure it has a folding stock so that you can use that when you have a chance.
Look into the Knoxx compstocks. They are great for making it so that can shoot shotguns like pistols. The recoil goes into the grip instead of your wrist.
Remington is outfitting all of their 'tactical' shotguns with Knoxx stocks because of how much they cut down on recoil.
Buy a crappy hunk of plastic grip with no stock and yeah the gun is going to hurt and not work well.
Spend time looking into it and there are a few pistol grip only guns that will work just fine.
I've said my piece on this topic about a dozen times.
I would suggest you use the search function. Look in the Shotgun forum. Search for the words Pistol Grip Only or PGO.
Kodiak, you're new. If you're interested, do a search of those threads. There is a challenge and a wager that has been thrown out by a bunch of the experienced shotgunners on here for PGO fans. Depending on what part of the country you're in, there is probably somebody nearby that would love to put a little money down on the awesomeness of the PGO.
But what do I know? I'm just one of those clueless firearms instructors.
I would suggest you use the search function. Look in the Shotgun forum. Search for the words Pistol Grip Only or PGO.
Kodiak, you're new. If you're interested, do a search of those threads. There is a challenge and a wager that has been thrown out by a bunch of the experienced shotgunners on here for PGO fans. Depending on what part of the country you're in, there is probably somebody nearby that would love to put a little money down on the awesomeness of the PGO.
But what do I know? I'm just one of those clueless firearms instructors.
I'm not saying PGOs are "awesome," or that they are better than stock guns. I'm reacting to the knee-jerk "they're useless" comments.
And, Correia, I appreciate your smilie. I certainly don't think firearms instructors are clueless, or that cops are. I just don't like such absolute answers when someone asks about a gun. I certainly wouldn't want to put my knowledge about guns up against yours.
I will search the archives, to see what everyone has said about this in the past, but the only wager I'm really interested in is with the guy who comes through my front door
And, Correia, I appreciate your smilie. I certainly don't think firearms instructors are clueless, or that cops are. I just don't like such absolute answers when someone asks about a gun. I certainly wouldn't want to put my knowledge about guns up against yours.
I will search the archives, to see what everyone has said about this in the past, but the only wager I'm really interested in is with the guy who comes through my front door
macadore
Member
Kodiac,
I got my first shotgun in 1960 and I stand behind my statements. The stocked shogun shoots more intuitively, and any follow up shots will be much faster and much more likely to be on target than they will with the grips in the OP. That includes shooting from the shoulder and shooting from the waist. I don’t validate my manhood by bragging about my ability to absorb unnecessary recoil. I can do it if I have to, but doing it just because I can is for mall ninjas.
I got my first shotgun in 1960 and I stand behind my statements. The stocked shogun shoots more intuitively, and any follow up shots will be much faster and much more likely to be on target than they will with the grips in the OP. That includes shooting from the shoulder and shooting from the waist. I don’t validate my manhood by bragging about my ability to absorb unnecessary recoil. I can do it if I have to, but doing it just because I can is for mall ninjas.
The Deer Hunter
Member
Well then what is awesome? I would imagine if its a tier above stocked shotguns, then it would certainly be something at least at the "awesome" level.
I am going to order a new wood stock set for my 870 from Numrich soon. I think I will get one of those pistol grips too just to see what I think of them. (Not that I like them or anything...)
macFarlaine
Member
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What is a Mall Ninja ?
Reply to macFarlaine:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=319872
Generally used for persons owning a large amount of tactical gear and overdoing it to the point of looking ridiculous. The reason for the term is mall security personnel tend to do this, wearing a huge black utility belt with ten non-lethal weapons on it since they don't typically carry firearms. The thread above has some more information, as the term references a legend of the internet message boards who used to post oddly earnest satirical stories of his alleged job in mall security.
gp911
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=319872
Generally used for persons owning a large amount of tactical gear and overdoing it to the point of looking ridiculous. The reason for the term is mall security personnel tend to do this, wearing a huge black utility belt with ten non-lethal weapons on it since they don't typically carry firearms. The thread above has some more information, as the term references a legend of the internet message boards who used to post oddly earnest satirical stories of his alleged job in mall security.
gp911
waterhouse
Member
While I have never carried one in war (thank you for your service), I have put enough rounds through a PGO shotgun to know how well I shoot it (poorly), and that it does hurt my wrist (more on that later) and I don't need any expert opinion to help me make up my mind after that.
Here I disagree. While dragging one through the jungle might be a pain with a full stock, the farthest I'll ever have to drag a full stock shotgun through my house is about 30 feet. I've been trained in room clearing with a stocked shotgun and would take one any day of the week over a PGO shotgun for defending my house.
Yes, I do, at least if by sight it you mean place my cheek on the stock and look down the barrel at the target, just like I've done thousands of times on birds and clays.
I like to practice with my defense guns on a regular basis. If it hurts to shoot it I won't be practicing much.
If a PGO shotgun works for you, that is fantastic, but the fact that some of us recommend something else does not mean we read an article and are spouting what we read like a parrot.
Here is the Dave McC pistol grip challenge, quoted from another thread:
I put a pachmayer vindicator on my 870 and shooting 00 buck and slugs were nothing.Gun was very accurate when I took the time to aim using the sights and could even shoot it one handed.Slugs were right on target and buck had all nine pellets in target at about thirty feet.I thought I would try to shoot one plate by just throwing up the gun an firing as if I needed it in a hurry.Not one pellet hit the plate.Only two places of support with pgo versus three with a stocked gun makes it easier to aim faster with the stock.I love the pgo for playing but if I really needed a gun in a serious situation,the stocked shotgun would be better I think.Just my opinion.
MassMan
Member
A Massachusetts distributer (Lou Horton I believe) had Remington make a very similar model for them. It actually looked identical to the one pictured above. I don't recall the # of rounds it held ( 7 or 8, I think) or the number of guns made under this contract. It was supposed to be a "special edition - limited run."
M2 Carbine
member
This is my setup on the 870. I have the front grip but never got around to trying it.
The pistol grip only shotgun is one of those things that you like or hate.
It kicks a bit, especially if held wrong.
It takes some practice to get good with it.
The shotgun is a close range weapon, out to 20 yards or so. If the average shooter can't hit the chest area of a BG out to 20 yards, from the hip, it's not the gun's fault.
There's at least one shooter, I've seen on the net, that shoots trap with a PGO shotgun.
I use a Streamlight TLR-2 laser/light on mine, which makes a pretty good setup.
I'm not a big shotgun fan but this setup is handy to grab when I check the neighbor's place, etc.
When people ask me about buying a PGO shotgun I tell them, "Don't".
Not many people will take the time to become competent with the gun.
The pistol grip only shotgun is one of those things that you like or hate.
It kicks a bit, especially if held wrong.
It takes some practice to get good with it.
The shotgun is a close range weapon, out to 20 yards or so. If the average shooter can't hit the chest area of a BG out to 20 yards, from the hip, it's not the gun's fault.
There's at least one shooter, I've seen on the net, that shoots trap with a PGO shotgun.
I use a Streamlight TLR-2 laser/light on mine, which makes a pretty good setup.
I'm not a big shotgun fan but this setup is handy to grab when I check the neighbor's place, etc.
When people ask me about buying a PGO shotgun I tell them, "Don't".
Not many people will take the time to become competent with the gun.
The Unknown User
Member
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- Apr 28, 2007
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- 712
What about a shotgun with a pistol grip/fixed stock and a forward pistol grip? Would that work?
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Here we go again....
Chances are I've shot more rounds through a folded folding stock 870 than the PGO fans have collectively. Best guess, about 1K, mostly 00.
I got paid to do so and to teach others likewise.
And, chances are I can still, despite lack of practice with same, outshoot said PGO fans handily with a PGO shotgun.
Given all that, all of my shotguns have real stocks. I like to HIT things when I shoot.
And let me restate the challenge ....
You can use ANY shotgun, equipped as you want it, as long as it has only a pistol grip and not a stock suitable fr shoulder operation.
Lazers, belt feed, optics? Heck yes.
You pick the course of fire, range and ammo.
Results posted here, losers(You) buy the coffee after.
In more than ten years, no takers.
And Rob, I've shot shotguns setup like that. They work, but seem slower for me. That might just be me, I've lots of shooting behind me with the standard setup....
Chances are I've shot more rounds through a folded folding stock 870 than the PGO fans have collectively. Best guess, about 1K, mostly 00.
I got paid to do so and to teach others likewise.
And, chances are I can still, despite lack of practice with same, outshoot said PGO fans handily with a PGO shotgun.
Given all that, all of my shotguns have real stocks. I like to HIT things when I shoot.
And let me restate the challenge ....
You can use ANY shotgun, equipped as you want it, as long as it has only a pistol grip and not a stock suitable fr shoulder operation.
Lazers, belt feed, optics? Heck yes.
You pick the course of fire, range and ammo.
Results posted here, losers(You) buy the coffee after.
In more than ten years, no takers.
And Rob, I've shot shotguns setup like that. They work, but seem slower for me. That might just be me, I've lots of shooting behind me with the standard setup....
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