Does anyone else have to set 9mm bullets without using a bell?

[71GTO]

I have tried adjusting my Lee powder through expansion die every which way I can, but no matter how small of a bell I use it's still doesn't give the .355 FMJ 115gr. bullets enough neck tension. It ends up with less than .001 of tension. I finally gave up on it and am going from the Lee FSD directly to the Lee bullet seating die. It's not crushing the case and so far they have all passed my Sheridan gauge and the plunk test on 3- different barrels. They end up with .002 - .003 neck tension this way.
I don't crimp either.

Does anybody else use this procedure? Will it cause any problems since they are all plunking?

 

[RockRat64]

I follow Lee directions and use precision delta .355 jhp with no problems.

I also use Lee FCD. If you're just using the expanding die, you also need to "crimp" at least to get the bell out.

 

[cfullgraf]

I expand the case mouth of my 9x19 cases with a standard expander die. The powder drop on my progressive presses do not expand the case mouth.

I expand the case mouth only enough so that the inside edge of the case mouth does not contact the bullet.

After seating the bullet, I taper crimp the case.

 

[AJC1]

The taper crimp die removes the bell from loading. Are you trying to seat and crimp at the same time which caused you problems?

 

[71GTO]

The taper crimp die removes the bell from loading. Are you trying to seat and crimp at the same time which caused you problems?

AJC1

As I stated originally I am not putting a bell in the case at all and I am not crimping at all. Every time I put a bell, regardless of how small, I could not get enough neck tension to hold the bullet and it would always set-back while cycling my pistol. That is why I am now just full sizing the case and then setting the bullet (again with no bell) and I am not crimping at all. By using this method I'm getting 2-3 thousands of neck tension and no more set-back. Thanks

 

[santacruzdave]

I had a similar problem when I first switched from a Lee Classic Turret press to a lock and Load AP. Turns out I did not screw the sizing die all the way down and my 9mm cases where not getting completely resized. This resulted in low or no case tension. Not saying that this is what is happening with your situation. Just thought I'd share my experience.

 

[Demi-human]

Every time I put a bell, regardless of how small, I could not get enough neck tension to hold the bullet and it would always set-back while cycling my pistol.

Your sizing die is not small enough. It is only sizing enough at the top, which the expander then takes out. The sizing ring needs to be small enough to work for the top, without ruining the bottom, or getting stuck. The Nine being a tapered case.
I had a similar problem with an RCBS sizing die in 50AE.

Bullet setback in a Desert Eagle is, unpleasant...

The big case, too, is tapered, but more so than the Parabellum, and so the sizing die must be tapered too. Not just a ring like in the Nine or 45Auto.

Some brass is harder than others and will resist sizing with a small amount of spring back, some times too much.

A smaller die is in order, mine being six thousandths smaller.
Check that your sizing ring is not cracked inside the die.

As long as they don't setback and you have a process that works, that's all that need to be.
But be cautious when changing components, crushed cases or shaved bullets (copper and coated) could result.

I prefer the wasp waisted look to my "straight walled" cases. I know they will not setback.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Check case OD after resizing, and again after dropping powder. This will tell you where the problem lies.

My guess: the problem's with the sizing die itself or the die setup.

 

[Blue68f100]

If your expander die is opening the case mouth too much it's over size and needs to be reduced. This is best done with something to spin the expander (drill, lathe) and sandpaper. These are normally hardened so it will take some time to reduce the size. Then polish it back out with fine sandpaper, 600, 1200, 1500.

 

[lordpaxman]

@luzyfuerza has some good advice. There can be multiple reasons for low neck tension. The brass, the sizing die or the expander die. Check the dimensions after each operation to see what you have. You also should check setback after seat/crimp and make sure it’s acceptable. You can do this on the bench as well as feeding rounds in your firearm and measuring after feeding. Good luck!

http://www.massreloading.com/straight_case_resizing.html

 

[FROGO207]

I agree with Blue68f100 in that your expanding die stem is too large. Measure it after removing it from the die. It should be.001-.002 smaller than your bullets for good neck tension. It might be one for a 357 die and as such would be larger. Just reduce the size or order a replacment from Lee. I will measure mine and get back to you.

ETA: My Lee stem is .3515 before ot starts to flare out.
My Lee 357 stem is .3550.

 

[coonbait]

had the same issues with 9mms and found that LEE sales an undersized carbide sizer die got one and it fixed the problem

 

[mdi]

oops...

 

[kmw1954]

I agree that knowing the powder thu die that is usually used with a Lee powder measure. I find it hard to believe the problem is there as my most common issue is not being able to get enough flare when using cast lead bullets. I too would go back a step and look closely at the sizing die.

Measure an unsized case and then a sized one.

 

[Toprudder]

If you are getting .002-.003" neck tension using just the sizing die, and not expanding, then I say you may have two problems. I believe the sizing die should be sizing down a little smaller than that to begin with. But, your expander is opening it up too much if you only have .001" tension after expansion.

IIRC; the Lee powder through die isn't a true expander, it just flares the case mouth.

That is true for their "universal expander", which really doesn't expand at all, it just flares. But, the powder-thru expanders for the pistol calibers DO expand the brass.

 

[71GTO]

Your sizing die is not small enough. It is only sizing enough at the top, which the expander then takes out. The sizing ring needs to be small enough to work for the top, without ruining the bottom, or getting stuck. The Nine being a tapered case.
I had a similar problem with an RCBS sizing die in 50AE.

Bullet setback in a Desert Eagle is, unpleasant...

The big case, too, is tapered, but more so than the Parabellum, and so the sizing die must be tapered too. Not just a ring like in the Nine or 45Auto.

Some brass is harder than others and will resist sizing with a small amount of spring back, some times too much.

A smaller die is in order, mine being six thousandths smaller.
Check that your sizing ring is not cracked inside the die.

As long as they don't setback and you have a process that works, that's all that need to be.
But be cautious when changing components, crushed cases or shaved bullets (copper and coated) could result.

I prefer the wasp waisted look to my "straight walled" cases. I know they will not setback.

Demi-human

"A smaller die is in order, mine being six thousandths smaller.
Check that your sizing ring is not cracked inside the die.

As long as they don't setback and you have a process that works, that's all that need to be.
But be cautious when changing components, crushed cases or shaved bullets (copper and coated) could result.

I prefer the wasp waisted look to my "straight walled" cases. I know they will not setback".

I agree with what you (and others) have said about my Lee FLD not being small enough. I checked and the sizing ring is not cracked. I just ordered a couple different style sizing dies to give them a try, but for now I am going to stay with my procedure of not belling or crimping, because it is giving my completed ammo the most neck tension without distorting the bullet. They do have a slight "wasp waist" on them, but everyone of the 100 I have made so far will fit my Sheridan gauge and pass the plunk test in my barrel. I will heed your warning about keeping and eye on them when I change bullet type or run into a case that I haven't see yet. Iv'e already used about 8-different manufacturer's cases and so far so good.

Thanks again everyone for your help and suggestions.