Does Anyone Know Irelands Gun Laws?

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RaggedClaws said:
I don't mean to be adversarial, because I would love it if the statistics proved "more guns, less crime", but do you know of any other research except that produced by John Lott to prove that point? If I remember correctly, there was quite a bit of controversy surrounding John Lott and his statistics (and not just from the antis). If the correlation is easily provable, then someone else should concur.

Maybe we should start a new thread about this issue because I'm sure others would be interested in it (others who might not be curious about the Irish).

Here are some links supporting the "no correlation" viewpoint:

http://dss.ucsd.edu/~sscroggi/Econ1/LevittCrimeInThe90s18JEP163_2004.pdf
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvintl.html#intl
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No one has ever refuted Lott's research -- although they have pretended to. The data you cite does not replicate the Lott study (which covered all counties in the US over more than a decade and which used highly sophisticated multi-variate statistical analysis.)
 
Links?

The only stats I've seen point to no correlation at all, let alone a cause/effect relationship.
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No links, but I'm sure that high crime and strict gun control go hand in hand. Can't prove causality, either way, but there is a direct correlation.

Just look at Washington DC, Detroit, NYC, Chicago, and LA. I don't feel like searching for stats, but can anyone think of a high crime city where it's easy to get a gun, let alone carry one?

(legally, that is :scrutiny: )
 
First off the topic was about gun laws not chickens or eggs or stats.

Second, a great man once said "There are three types of lies: a lie, a Damn lie & a statistic." Mark Twain

I'm not saying I agree one way or the other, what I am saying is that you can manipulate any research or experiment to get the desired results. That’s a tool that politicians (I was going to say "crooked politicians" but truth is I've never met a straight one myself) use in debates & legislation to push whatever agenda or laws they want. You can say statistics show this, statistics show that but it all amounts to absolutely nothing at the end of the day.

Now I personally don't believe that more guns cause violence, I believe people cause violence. We are (whether you want to admit it or not) still animals, no matter how more advanced we are than any other species. In a time when we didn't have guns or firing weapons we were still extremely violent. The truth remains that as long as we've been around we (as homo sapiens) have caused violence. So what came first, your damn chicken or your stupid egg? Neither, only human nature.
 
Vern Humphrey said:
The Irish Police -- the Garda Seochana (if I've spelled right.) Ireland has a national police force much like that of Britain.
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It's "An Garda Síochána" (in Irish Gaelic), meaning "The Guardians of the Peace".
Here's their website- http://www.garda.ie/

Candiru said:
Who needs a gun when you have "...moral authority as servants of the people"?
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:rolleyes:
Yeah, I know. A lovely pious sentiment.
The reality is a little different. While the Gardaí (plural of Garda, one officer, singular) are nominally an unarmed force, about 1/3 of them have firearms cards, which is their official permission to carry and use firearms in the course of their duties. No figures on how many actually do, though.
Here's an article from one of last Sunday's national newspapers-
http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=suntrib200602128zh.jpg
The paper in question isn't noted for the accuracy of its firearms reporting, as you can see from the awkward terminology used.

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Lovely country Ireland. I can recommend a visit to anyone.

I have an Irish aquaintance who related the following story...

"As a kid I lived near a cemetery. Once they held a funeral there with a military honor guard, who fired a salute. Afterwards I scrounged around for the discarded brass (.303) and took one home for a keepsake. A few weekends later my father was in the pub and mentioned my keepsake out loud in conversation. There was an off duty member of the Guards in the pub. He did nothing, that day. Bright and early Monday morning the same cop was knocking on our door, and we had to turn over the brass to him."

This aquaintance said the Guards are particularly leery of .303's

On my trip to Ireland we stayed at a B&B out in the country. They had some silver ware that had old shell casings as handles. I always wondered what the Guards would think of those.

(All above items happened in the Republic, not Northern Ireland).
 
"Lies, damned lies and statistics" is a nice, catchy phrase. Very popular.

It is also dishonest, lazy and cowardly.

The real world, as opposed to the idealized world most of us carry around in our heads, is difficult and not always straightforward. To get at the truth or even within sight of it takes real work. Statistical analysis is one of the greatest modern developments in that search. But the lazy, the craven and those who would rather have you believe comforting lies would rather that you let them do the thinking for you. So they denigrated, diminish and deny any data which contradict their propaganda. What's worse, they try to cut the legs out from under the whole enterprise of analyzing facts to approach the truth.

This nasty little phrase is one of their best tools. It cuts of discussion and implies that anything complicated or difficult to understand, much less any inconvenient fact that can be expressed in terms of "how much", "how often", or "how likely" is a lie. The only thing you need to do is shut up and eat your pabulum.

Unfortunately, that world-view seems to be winning. I can not see how the Republic or indeed the civilization of the Enlightenment can survive that sort of Know Nothingism.
 
So you are saying that I'm lazy & a coward because I don't trust statistics? have you ever had a statistics class in college? If you have then you would know that most studies, unless done by a 3rd party who is completely unbiased & has no agenda, are flawed. With the slightest of hand, its very easy to "adjust" information to come out with a desired response. I don't whole-heartedly believe statistics that go in favor of issues that I believe in.

But to try & disrespect me, like you did is unacceptable. Where I come from you don’t do that without consequences & repercussions.
 
Offwhite said:
So you are saying that I'm lazy & a coward because I don't trust statistics? have you ever had a statistics class in college? If you have then you would know that most studies, unless done by a 3rd party who is completely unbiased & has no agenda, are flawed. With the slightest of hand, its very easy to "adjust" information to come out with a desired response. I don't whole-heartedly believe statistics that go in favor of issues that I believe in.

But to try & disrespect me, like you did is unacceptable. Where I come from you don’t do that without consequences & repercussions.
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I would sincerely hope that he didn't mean to offend you.

I take his meaning to be that to dismiss statistics out of hand is not a valid way of answering the conclusions those statistics support. One must show that the statistics are faulty or the data improperly collected to make a valid objection.
 
In any regaurd, statistics and all of this garbage that we are now talking about have absolutely nothing to do with what this thread is about. I was inquiring about the gun laws of Ireland, not what everyone's opinion is of statistics & lowering crime rates & chickens & eggs...Ireland. That was it.

On another note, thank you Rovi for being helpful & answering my quetions. Are you a born native of Ireland or have you lived else where?
 
Offwhite said:
On another note, thank you Rovi for being helpful & answering my quetions. Are you a born native of Ireland or have you lived else where?
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No problem, glad to help. :)
Born and bred here, never lived anywhere else.
I've visited a bunch of places though :D

You mentioned earlier in the thread that some of the stuff on the Irish shooting board wasn't immediately understandable. We do, I suppose, spend a lot of the time discussing stuff where we take for granted that everyone knows the background to the issues. Sorry about that. :eek:
If you want to point out anything in particular, I'll see if I can translate it into American. :D

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Vern Humphrey said:
That's something I've noticed here in the States -- in places where crime is low, and I don't need to carry a gun, I can carry one. In high crime areas where I feel naked without one, they don't want me to have one.:banghead:
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Oh my god. Amen to that....DC is a PRIME example.

Anyway, I am so in love with Ireland and one day i will move there. But that day will be when the gun laws change and I can take all of mine with me.

<3

countryside.jpg
 
nolefan said:
Anyway, I am so in love with Ireland and one day i will move there. But that day will be when the gun laws change and I can take all of mine with me.
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What have you got?
That day might be closer than you think. :D

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Rovi said:
What have you got?
That day might be closer than you think. :D

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Actually, not many. 3 .357 revolvers and one semi-auto in .22. I am just a beginning collector ;)
 
nolefan said:
Actually, not many. 3 .357 revolvers and one semi-auto in .22. I am just a beginning collector ;)
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All legal here. I'm assuming the "semi-auto in .22" is a pistol of some sort.

The technical hitch is, each firearm must be individually licenced, and I don't know of anybody with four handgun licences. :(

The 'restrictions' on licencing handguns has only been relaxed (somewhat) in the last few years, since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement and the cessation of (most of) the faction fighting between the various protagonists in Northern Ireland.
Since then, there has been a steady trickle of shooters getting licences for handguns.
I hope to add myself to that number in the near future! :D

There are in the region of 4-500 licenced handguns in the Republic at the moment, most of them 'single' guns. There are a few people with two handguns, but I don't know of anyone with three or more.
In due course, and assuming the 'hard men' don't fall back on their old habits, this will probably change.
There are about 230,000 licenced firearms (shotguns, rifles, handguns) in the Republic of Ireland at the moment. With a population of around 4,000,000, that's a legal gun for approximately every 17 people.
Who knows how many handguns, sub-machine guns, sawn-off shotguns, etc, etc, are in the hands of the criminal underworld.

Currently (and for the foreseeable future), all firearms are licenceable, and 'good reason' must be shown in order to procure a licence.
The only acceptable 'good reasons' are hunting/vermin control (of the four legged/winged variety :D ) and target shooting. Self/property defence, collecting, "I like guns", "They're coming to get me", etc, are not acceptable as 'good reasons'.

We have a Constitution (Bunreacht na hEireann), but there's nothing like your Second Amendment in it. :(

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How is something like a flintlock rifle or handgun regulated in Ireland?

Thanks
 
LAR-15 said:
How is something like a flintlock rifle or handgun regulated in Ireland?

Thanks
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There are some re-enactor type people out there, so it can be done, but I think there are some 'issues.'

Again, AFAIK, the guns are licenced the same as any other firearm, but I'm led to believe that the propellant (blackpowder) is treated as an explosive under Irish law, which makes things even more complicated and bureaucratic than it already is for 'ordinary' guns.

I'll do a bit of research and get back to you.

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