Does anyone make their own lead balls?

[warbirdlover]

I only post this so that those that do take real care. Years ago we bought some parts from a small "mom and pop" brass company in our town. Our buyer told them to add alot of lead to make them machine better so the local company owner did. His whole workforce got severe lead poisoning!! He refused to put it in anymore and lost our business (because of this buyer). Now we won't buy anything with lead in it, LOL. Normally lead poisoning is hard to notice but the guys working at this place were in severe condition within a week or two.

Symptoms of lead poisoning can also be symptoms of other conditions. Symptoms include:

Loss of appetite and weight loss
Irritability
Tired, lethargic behavior
Vomiting
Abdominal pain
Constipation
Joint pain
Headaches
Trouble sleeping
Confusion

When the level of lead in the body becomes greater, more extreme symptoms may be seen, including:

Twitching and shaking
Convulsions
Paralysis
Hallucinations
Coma


I mention this so any of you that do make your own balls or bullets really take care with proper ventilation in preferably a garage or open area.

Lead poisoning is not nice. Take care you guys (or gals).

 

[Ka-Ka]

Edited

Reminder to self-
Don't post while drinking.

 

[c_yeager]

If someone turned into a real moron there could have been a nasty situation in which they were actually bringing lead up to a boiling point, and exposing the workers to the vapors. That would place you into EXTREME levels of exposure very quickly (this is why pots for casting dont heat up hot enough to boil lead). Incidentally the boiling point of lead isnt too far from the melting point of brass.

 

[mec]

The antimony in most lead alloys is also supposed to cause various types of brain shriveling. Amazingly though, a couple of generations of gunwriters cast lead bullets by the train load and managed to live to hoary old age. They showed an amazing tollerance for both heavy metals and whiskey.

 

[4v50 Gary]

So, the lesson is to drink whiskey while casting?

BTW, when I cast, I always do it outdoors and downwind.

 

[warbirdlover]

c_yeager

That's EXACTLY what they were doing. Maybe I'm overly nervous about this but if you get lead to the melting point won't you be releasing vapors?

 

[Malamute]

A friend that had a large commercial bullet outfit said they tested their workers regularly, and never had anyone show lead in their system. He said the lead furnaces they used didn't heat the lead hot enough to cause it to vaporize. Heating lead with other means that a controled furnace may be less safe.

The place that was using lead in the brass sound like they had the lead to a hotter temp to alloy the brass with.

 

[warbirdlover]

I think that was the deal. Lead doesn't alloy (on the crystalline level) with other metal and I don't think they knew that. Or because the brass was higher temp it heated the lead up to that temp when they added it.

 

[Poodleshooter]

Their real fault was machining lead. That just throws lead oxide into the air-quite deadly. Casting is far safer. To my knowledge, no lead goes into the air from casting until lead reaches it's boiling point,which is much higher than most pots can heat to. The vapors referred to are more from flux and other crap that forms on the lead so far as I know.
I've been casting for 3 years. My lead level has actually gone down over that period. I've had it tested 2x since I started.
I also cast outdoors. It's a good hobby for cold, wintery days.

 

[warbirdlover]

They weren't doing machining, only pouring brass castings for us to machine and adding lead to improve the machining per the purchasing guys (idiot) instructions. Then their whole workforce came down with SEVERE lead poisoning symptoms. Every one of them. The owner was telling me what some of his men (and women) went through. Not nice.

 

[bfoster]

Having gone on to another endeavor, I'm no longer a practicing mechanical engineer: take what I say for what it's worth to you.

IMO, the foundry did something wrong in their processing of your material. I won't speculate on what happened, the forensics of industrial accidents isn't an area in which I have competence. The use of leaded brass alloys both as castings and bar stock is fairly widespread in industry; in some circumstances use of this material can indeed reduce total manufacturing costs when compared with similar non leaded alloys.

I might point out that the melting point of brass alloys is substantially higher than the 750-775° F maximum normally used for casting bullets to be used in muzzleloaders, (lower temperatures, due to the different alloys usually employed, are used for casting the bullets for cartridge ammunition). Because of the difference in temperature between the working temperature required to melt the brass alloy your foundry people had the catastrophic experience with, and the temperature used by bullet casters, the vapor pressure of the lead is much lower in bullet casting operations.

Nevertheless, control of the casting environment, whether amateur or commercial, for safety is fundamental and essential.

The best references I've seen for lead alloys are

1. the ASM handbook (not the desktop version, you need the multi-volume edition available in large engineering libraries). Volumes 2 & 3 of the current edition will be of particular interest to you.

ASM Handbooks

2. Old, but still (I think) a standard introduction to the topic-

Hofmann, Wilhelm, Lead & Lead alloys, translation by Gerwig Vibrans, Springer-Verlag, New York, New York, 1970
(or in German)
Hofmann, Wilhelm, Blei und Bleilegierungen, Springer, Berlin, 1962

Bob

edits: spelling

 

[Peter M. Eick]

This brings to mind a comment I remember from during my explosives licensing school. The instructor said that "just because this is safe for me, it does not mean it is safe for you. You must understand that as rookies working with materials that can make you turn into a mist, you must focus on doing it by the book. Also remember this, the people that blow themselves up are either rookies or 10 to 15 year experienced guys. The rookies blow themselves up from stupidity and thinking they know what they are doing. The experienced guys blow themselves up due to complacency and forgetting the rules."

Every time I handle Pent or caps or any of the det. cord I think about these words.

Reading this thread made me think of the exact same thing. Just because you are scared/concerned about lead, it does not mean that I should be also. It does not also mean that I do not take careful steps to mitigate the problems (like casting outside and wearing appropriate PPE etc.)

 

[Gatofeo]

Oh my gawddd ... I'm showing some of the symptoms!

Irritability
Tired, lethargic behavior
Constipation
Joint pain
Trouble sleeping
Confusion

Or, it could be that I'm 50 and just a grumpy, absent-minded ol' desert cat that stays up too late and then has to get up at Oh God Hundred to go to work.

 

[GunGoBoom]

Let's see...

..
Irritability
Tired, lethargic behavior
..
..
..
Joint pain
..
..
Confusion


I have most of those and don't even mess with much lead - I'd hate to think what would happen if I did. No trouble sleeping whatsoever though. Kinda funny that I once upon a time as a teen/young adult, had quite a problem with insomnia/night owl syndrome. Now I still don't get up early, but I don't stay up later either.

Edit: eeeps, I see that I'm not the first to make the aging joke; sorry.

 

[warbirdlover]

Hey, I'm not "scared" of lead but just wanted to make sure people were aware of risks. At least I think that's what I was doing....hmmm....can't remember.

 

[Malamute]

"Edit: eeeps, I see that I'm not the first to make the aging joke;"




I was going to comment about the age thing too, but I forgot.

 

[Third_Rail]

Peter M. Eick, I don't mean to split hairs, but it's not "pent", it's PETN; pentaerythritol tetranitrate.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I was refering to Pentolite which does have PETN but I always call it "pent".

http://www.ensign-bickfordcompany.com/seismic/

If you are interested look at the seismic super boosters. Those are some of my favorites.

It is a good explosive, nice sharp crack in the ground, less ground rumble then say seisgel or any of the emulsions. I like the crisp high frequency of the Pent as a source. Also the high propegation speed (about 25,000 fps) gives a pretty clean first break. I normally shoot around 11 to 22 lbs at around 100 to 150 foot holes. The main downfall of Pent is the stability of the source, and the expense. The safety aspect of the stuff is also quite nice. I played baseball with a nice 11 lb screwed up charge once to show that without dets it is quite safe stuff. I also like that you do not have to deal with nitro headaches at the end of the day like some of the other sources.

If you go with some of the bio caps that will eat the Pent then it is a lot easier to store in the hole.

The nice thing about being the "client" is I get to spec the job and pick the explosives. I get to set the charge size, types, depths and dets. I have speced out a bunch of Pent over the years and never had a problem with the stuff.

I rarely use PETN (or det cord as we normally call it in the seismic industry). Last time I really played with was out in 1999 near Rangley CO. Lots of fun trying out different sources.

 

[Third_Rail]

Pentolite... hadn't heard of it. That quite explains my confusion!