Does disassembly affect point of impact?

[mcgiiver]

I have a sporterized, Mauser large ring action in 8mm, free floated, bedded into Fajen wood stock. I want to unbolt the action from the stock for travel purposes. It's just so much cheaper to fly with a rifle case that comes in less than 60", length plus width plus depth.

Do you think my point of impact will be affected, if I break the gun down for travel?

My thought it is since it is bedded with epoxy, and I will return the action screws to the precise tension because there are guard screws for the action screws on the Mauser, I will not affect the point of impact to any great extent.

 

[carbine85]

If the rifle is fitted tight in the stock, like bedded it shouldn't be a problem. If the rifle fits loose you can expect it to change.
Can you take practice shoots before you use it? I'm guessing this is a hunting trip.

 

[WardenWolf]

Most likely it will affect the point of impact. I strongly recommend you do not do this. You spent all this money to get your rifle set up exactly how you want it. Do you really want to risk messing it up just to avoid paying the extra airline fees?

You could always arrange to ship the rifle to a local gun store via UPS. That'd probably be a cheaper and safer bet.

 

[Grumulkin]

The point of impact will likely change but you may get lucky.

Now if you had a Blaser R 93 or R 8, you would be able to dismount the barrel, remove the scope put it in a case that met airline dimensions for standard baggage and reassemble the gun at your destination with no point of impact change.

There are some who think Blasers cost too much. Consider the fact you have to do nothing to the trigger or action to make it better and the savings in baggage charges if you fly with them a lot and they won't seem so expensive.

 

[shooter1niner]

Since you should check your zero after flying I see no problem with removing action from the stock. I will say again that you should check your zero after travel in either case. Wouldn't want to lose a trophy because your rifle was mishandled during travel would you? Or bounced around the loading dock or truck at UPS...

 

[ZGunner]

Wrong thread. Sorry.

 

[jmr40]

It might, might not. And if it does change POI slightly it will probably return after 2-3 shots when you reassemble. Take it apart and reassemble PRIOR to a trip just to see what happens.

 

[Steve S.]

Like any joint having a bolt, the action and stock will try to find the original "set" when the bolt is tightened; the original set is not always repeatable without a refined machining as part of the design. The rejoin should always be close but may never be exactly as original. As was mentioned before, after (long and rough) travel with any rifle (even without disassembly), it is always recommended to re-zero.

 

[Tirod]

If it's scoped there are those who recommend taking a spare. Baggage handling and theft are an issue. No sense having a trip spoiled because the glass was taken by an unscrupulous inspector.

Some use locking devices to fasten the firearm to the case so that it can't be easily removed, either. Since the case has to have TSA inspection and they will be able to open it out of your sight, there is a risk.

 

[Bart B.]

Having detail disassembled and stripped Win 70 and Garand match rifles several times over the years to clean them. After reassembly then shooting them, I observed no change in zero nor accuracy.

Those parts don't know if they're separated or kept together. As long as their fit is repeatable before and after disassembly, all's well. Torquing stock screws to the same in/lb numbers proved best for accuracy helps a lot. I've always backed off stock screws and Garand trigger guards so the wood stock material doesn't take a set from being compressed over time. Not much an issue with bolt guns but Garands' trigger guard locking pins wear and over time kept in battery will compress the wood stock and end up with less force between the stock and metal.

I don't think your Mauser will suffer any zero or accuracy issues from disassembly then the reverse thereof at some later time.

 

[243winxb]

Getting the magazine back in correctly is important. Always test fire after a trip/flight. Seen a Rem 700 trigger get lighter. Someone adjusted it and didnt put some form of locker on it.

 

[FL-NC]

In my experience, yes. Impact is effected (slightly) on rifles like the M24, even when the same torque wrench is used to re-assemble the rifle to the required specs (65 inch pounds). Normally a slight adjustment on the zero range fixes this.

 

[taliv]

you should not use a torque wrench to reassemble

i can't speak to the garand, but all of my rem700 style bolt actions do not require rezeroing when you remove and reassemble the stock. if they do, something is wrong with your lug contact

 

[carbine85]

I have a Mosin Nagant that I properly bedded. It's a tight fit in the stock. I have removed it from the stock without loss of zero. In this case the stock has a lot of bedding and barrel is dampened with rubberized cork.

 

[Bart B.]

Taliv, if stock screws are not torqued to the same amount, how is any repeatability in receiver pressure against bedding obtained?

I and others have tested Win 70's for best torque on their 3 screws to get optimum accuracy watching groups change size change with torque. 60 inch-pounds became a well followed standard. 40 on the Remington 700 receivers was typical according to those I talked with who used them..

Even rimfire 22's need specific torque. 20 to 25 inch-pounds are popular with Anschutz match rifles epoxy bedded. Anschutz recommended about 43 inch-pounds for their factory wood stocks as stated in the rifle's manuals which shows how to torque the screws. Their hex head L wrench has notches in it for the rifles weight where you finger goes with the rifle hanging on it to set the torque correctly.

 

[taliv]

torque, as measured/applied by a torque wrench, will vary by condition of the screw, presence of lube, loctite, dirt, fouling etc. torque it once and make a witness mark. torque it again and see if it goes back to the same spot. my guess is, it will go further than it did the previous time.

using the witness mark for subsequent reassembly, has the additional advantage of not requiring you to carry torque wrenches around (though I do keep one in my backpack anyway)

 

[Bart B.]

Where that screw head clocks in relative to some mark also varies by how thick the stock is parallel to the screw axis. Wood stocks as well as synthetic ones change dimensionally with ambient temperature. I don't think a given set of parts lets the screw clock in to the same point across all temperature. To say nothing about the humidity which also causes changes in wood dimensions. Most wood stocks are not perfectly sealed.

I don't care how thick the stock is around the screws. But the metal parts are always cleaned and lubed near exactly the same before torquing.

 

[taliv]

I don't understand how any of that is relevant. You don't retorque when you walk outside so the change to temp and humidity would be the same in both cases.

 

[jrdolall]

I learned the hard way on an antelope hunt to Montana that it is ALWAYS a good idea to verify your zero after an airline flight. My gun wasn't on paper at 50 yards after my trip but I didn't find that out until I missed a goat at 125 yards. Buck didn't even flinch.

 

[Bart B.]

I think its relevant if you loosen the stock screws a bit after a match then retorque them at another match fired in temperatures 70 degrees and/or humidity 40% different than before. Torquing's done at the match after the rifle's arrived at ambient temperature which may be 40 degrees below where the rifle and ammo spent the night before. Retorquing once or twice after ambient temperature goes higher.

 

[taliv]

you do that? i shoot about a dozen matches per year and almost every day. when i was shooting high power it was more like 3 matches per month. i can't imagine loosening and tightening screws in wood (not that i would use a wood stock, but whatever floats your boat) that much would be a good thing.

i pretty much just tighten them and run with it until there's a compelling reason to remove the rifle from the stock (like, 3x per year for barrel changes). i remain pretty skeptical that accuracy is that sensitive to different torque settings.

 

[Bart B.]

The two guys (Nat'l Champs multiple times) who convinced me of that tested their rifles in machine rests shooting 1/2 MOA or better many-shot groups at 600 yards with different torque settings that produced different test groups sizes.

 

[FL-NC]

Taliv- on the M24 SWS ( a 700 built in the Remington custom shop for the Army) the army and factory manuals state 65 inch pounds using the supplied seekonk t handle non-adjustable torque wrench. Locktite isn't used (you don't need it- because the torque is set by the user). On the rare occassion when the Sniper removes the action from the H&S stock (such as excess debris in the barrel channel), then re-torques the system back together, there is almost always a deviation of less than 1 MOA. After each training session (or mission), our Snipers are trained to re-tork x3 (3 "pops") each screw in a front-to-back pattern as part of the normal cleaning/maintenance schedule for that system. While this may not be necessary after each session, it builds repetition/consistency in the Sniper's regimen. Removing the stock from the action is not part of "normal' maintenance.

 

[69Precision]

Taking it apart and trying it is really the only way to know for sure. Different rifles will react differently to being taken apart. Also making sure you torque the bolts to the same Value every time will help with consistency.

 

[taliv]

Fl-nc
Yep I use the same 65 seekonk wrench at home.
The question is after you do it once do you keep torquing it every time (which puts the screw in a different position every time) or do you return the screw to the same position.

I get you're saying you use the wrench every time. I'm questioning which one of those types of consistency matters most because you can't have both. I've done it both ways and never noticed a difference in group size. I have never had to adjust zero.