Does the president make a difference?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
466
Location
Smithville, TX
At one time in the past, the only legitimate judicial philosophy was something like what we term today as "originalism". That is, that judges should apply the law (or the Constitution) to cases according to their best good faith determination of the intent of the people who wrote and passed/ratified the law.

Starting sometime around the 1930's with some judges appointed by Roosevelt, judges began to let their ideological bent influence their rulings and opinions. Hence judges began to be classified as "conservative" or "liberal" according to which political outlook they brought to the bench.

In the ensuing years this trend gained strength, leading to rulings that overturned long established principles of law on the basis of "emanations" and "penumbras", and even more recently, based of various elements of international law.

The bottom line is that beyond mere competence, the philosophical bent of judges, especially federal judges, is more important than ever.

With that in mind, I think it would be illuminating if we could review instances in recent history (say the last 25 years or so) where the federal courts have rendered opinions touching on 2A rights, see how the judges involved in these rulings voted, and see which president appointed them.

I know that the 5th circuit, led by Justice Sam Cummings, issued a major ruling some years back that while upholding the Lautenberg Amendment (no guns if you have a DV misdemeanor) otherwise favored an individual rights interpretation. And I am aware that the 9th Circuit has espoused the so-called "collective rights" theory in some of its rulings. And of course we are all aware of the DC Circuit rulings in the recent Parker/Heller case.

I totally lack the ability to research such a thing. But if someone could come up with a list of rulings where each voting justice is named along with their position (individual rights, collective rights) and the president who appointed them, I think it would tell us something about the importance of the upcoming presidential election.

I suspect that if such an analysis were run we would see that the judges who favored an individual rights position on the 2A were overwhelmingly appointed by Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43, while the judges who voted or opined in favor of the collective rights position were overwhelmingly appointed by Carter or Clinton.

But that is just my instinct. I would love to see the actual data. Any volunteers?
 
Your assuming that the judges appointed by Conservatives are going to take the individual rights side. What your doing is projecting your bias on the idea that if they dont agree they are wrong and they are Democrats.

Reagan was a true blue antigunner. Bush Jr. hates the Bill of Rights. His father doesnt seem to bad. Clinton isn't exactly a friend to us and I dont believe Carter really knows about this either.
 
"All of Washington is a whore house, and every four years we get to choose the piano player"

I don't know who said it, but they hit the nail on the head.
 
Tecumseh says.....

Your assuming that the judges appointed by Conservatives are going to take the individual rights side. What your doing is projecting your bias on the idea that if they dont agree they are wrong and they are Democrats.

I'm assuming nothing. I said my instinct was that judges appointed by conservatives, Republicans if you will, would be much more likely to take the individual rights side of 2A cases, and those appointed by liberals (Democrats in general) more likely to take the collective rights side.

But then I asked for data. IOW, let's see how it really shakes out in the real world.

I think that if someone with better research skills than I could compile this data, the results would be illuminating. Especially in terms of the upcoming presidential election.

It's important for people to know what is at stake. For instance, I hear some people saying that if Giulianni or even Romney is the Republican nominee they will stay home or vote for Clinton/Obama on the grounds that Rudy/Mitt are not "pure" enough on the 2A issue. Maybe that wouldn't make any difference for gun rights. Maybe it would. Rudy has said he would appoint Originalist judges. One can only guess what kind of judges Clinton/Obama would appoint. (Ginsberg and Breyer come to mind.)

What are judges like this likely to do to the 2A? My guess is that they would drive a stake through its heart and dump it in the nearest landfill. And the cause of gun rights will be crushed, possibly forever.

What I say is if the race were between Hillary and Satan, I would vote for Satan. If it were between Obama and Satan, I would vote for Satan (as the lesser of two evils).

But I could be wrong. I might be imagining all this. Maybe whoever is elected wouldn't make any difference for gun rights. Who knows? Let's see the data. Let's see how judges appointed by Democrats in recent times have voted on 2A matters compared to judges appointed by Republicans.
 
Maybe I'm hijacking my own thread here, but I can't help it.

obxned says (in his sig line):

There is only one gun law in this country, the 2nd Amendment. All else is bureaucratic nonsense that I choose to comply with or not at my discretion.

1) What does the 2nd Amendment mean? And why should we take your word for it, or anyone's in particular? Do certain people have some unique insight into "revealed truth" that the rest of us should just bow before, or might we have arguable opinions of our own?

2) I always thought that we (through our elected officials) picked 9 people whom we all agreed would be fair referrees of what the law means, and that we further agreed to peacefully abide by their rulings and opinions.

3) You or anyone might define something as "bureaucratic nonsense" in your opinion, but you will be in the distinct minority. The great bulk of the rest of us will simply say that you "broke the law".

4) When someone breaks the law, and we catch them at it, they will go to jail.

Which is where they belong.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top