Does this look like flame cutting? Pics. Ruger LCR. little help?

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FirearmsInPhoenix

FirearmsInPhoenix

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Hey guys, just got back from an hour at the indoor range where I put the following through my Ruger LCR (first time shooting this piece):

Privi Partizan 158 gr. LRN (standard velocity): 55 rounds
Speer Gold Dot 135 gr. +P : 10 rounds
Buffalo Bore 158 gr. LSWCHP +P : 15 rounds

That was all I had time for today, about one hour total.

When I got home I checked the frame and could see a possible divot in the frame where flame cutting would take place. I put my fingernail in their and could feel a depression/divot. Took a photo, cleaned of the area and took more pictures.

So, do the pics below look like the beginning of flame cutting to you guys?

I'll call Ruger in the morning, but just want some feedback. Thanks.

FlameCutDirty.jpg

FlameCutClean4.jpg

FlameCutClean3.jpg

FlaceCutClean2.jpg

Flacecutclean1.jpg
 
It does appear to be the beginning of flame cutting (erosion) to me.

I've seen similiar cutting on other revolvers that had many (thousands) of rounds thru them but I'm just a little surprised to see it that evident after only 80 rounds.

Some amount of cutting (erosion) is normal but it usually doesn't progress much beyond what you are seeing now.

Hot, light bullet loads are supposed to cause increased erosion to an extreme amount but I never shoot such loads and haven't had that problem, others will probably step in to expand on that issue.

By the way, is the Ruger rated for +P loads and is that part of the LCR metal or a plastic composite?

Try a Google search for "Ruger LCR +P rated". I just did and got some video and comments about flame cutting.
 
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Wow, is the whole barrel insert that thin or is it just the forcing cone?

My RG-40 has a forcing cone/barrel at least twice that thick...
 
Don't worry about it and keep shooting. It has to go quite a bit farther to be a problem and normally it goes for a while and then stops.
 
^^^ On steel, maybe, but aluminum is much softer and easier to cut.

I have never owned an aluminum frame revolver so I cannot say if this is normal but I would keep an eye on this.
 
That looks like "flamecutting." Which may be nothing to worry about. I'm a little suprised you would see it with so few rounds though. Does the gun have excessive gap between the cylinder and the cone (or throat) of the barrel?
 
I can't get this post out of my head. I really don't think it's normal to see erosion/flame-cutting after so few rounds. Either the metal is total crap or the cylinder gap is way beyond tolerances. I've had plenty of shooting time with revolvers - from .22LR to .357 Mag and the only time I'd seen erosion is with an older POS Arminius HW7 in 22LR - AFTER over 5,000 or so rounds! Mind you, my POS is an zinc alloy piece shooting HV 22LR rounds for the last 20 years NOT a supposedly top tier Ruger LCR! I'd say send it back to the factory.
 
Yeah, it definitely looks like the start of flame cutting, and it is not normal to see that with so few rounds through the gun. As others have mentioned, the barrel/cylinder gap may be excessive, if you can take a good closeup photo of the gap that would help us to tell if that is the case. In any case, you shouldn't be seeing that sort of cutting with any load with so few rounds through it, and I would recommend that you contact Ruger about it. They have good customer service, in my experience.
 
From what I gather flamecutting gets to a point and then stops. Unless it reaches a point where it's not safe to shoot the gun, I would and am ignoring it on mine.
 
Normally what happens is flame cutting will start to make a groove in the top strap. The reason it is usually self limiting is the hot gas is then redirected out the sides by the groove instead of hitting a flat surface and cutting into it. Sort of like a gutter downspout splash guard. In extreme cases like .30 Carbine and .357 Max. it will keep cutting into the groove some. Use of high pressure loads and hot burning powders (like Blue Dot) will aggravate it. In a snub revolver there really is no point is using firewall loads, you're just going to create a blinding fireball. If you can see the flash in front of the muzzle you're wasting powder. Once the bullet has left the barrel that's all you get. In snubs I use only standard loads and heavy bullets. All those guys who insist on shooting hot 110 and 125 gr. .357 loads from a snub crack me up. They should just get a flare gun. Don't get me wrong, I love HOT Elmer Keith loads too but only if you have at least 6 inches of bore.
 
@Nushif and Drail

In most cases, I would agree that flame-cutting is usually self-limiting. If the cutting never got much past the point we see here I don't think it would present much of a problem. What gives me pause is that it is happening after only 80 rounds. I have seen aluminum-framed revolvers with far more rounds through them than this with no signs of flame-cutting. This much cutting so quickly indicates that there may be a problem with the gun, and it warrants further investigation.
 
I think it does need to be looked at. This may be a specific issue with this gun. I have several hundred rounds through my LCR and there is zero erosion on the top strap. None at all. If I get time in a few days, I'll shoot a picture, but it just looks like a normal top strap with no erosion.
 
These replies are helpful. The cylinder gap is too thin to get a credit card in, so that's promising. W/o measuring, if I had to guess I'd say its about .003. It looks pretty good.

I haven't had time to contact Ruger today, but I will tomorrow.

After sleeping on it, I've decided I'm not comfortable with with any flame cutting after only 80 rounds.

Now I just need see what Ruger says.

Does anyone know if the LCR is manufactured in the plant in Prescott, AZ or somewhere else?

If it's in Prescott I could just drive it up there if they'd let me. When my grandfather had a problem with his Kel-Tec in Florida, they let him just drive it up to the plant and went over the problems with him. It was nice.

In any event, thanks for the replies.
 
After only 80 rounds of +P loads with an unknown type of powder. +P loads in any snub = accelerated wear and tear. The erosion shown in the photo is really not that bad, but it if continues to cut I would speak to a Ruger rep.
 
My guess is it is a tooling mark from manufacturing or assembly as it looks to be anodized/black, the same as the surfaces around it.
The erosion I've seen is across the width of the top strap, somewhat deeper in the middle, not just a dimple in the center.
 
My guess is it is a tooling mark from manufacturing or assembly as it looks to be anodized/black, the same as the surfaces around it.
The erosion I've seen is across the width of the top strap, somewhat deeper in the middle, not just a dimple in the center.
Click to expand...

I've heard that from some others as well. But, I inspected the frame prior to shooting and it was smooth, no divot. Unless I just missed it, but that's not likely. Typically I'm fairly detail oriented.

Having said that another poster on another forum said his Ruger had the same mark after 100 rounds and he remembers it being there prior to firing it the first time. Yet, a number of others have said that their top straps are smooth and w/o a mark after hundreds of rounds.

Who knows what to think. In any even I'll contact Ruger and trust their assessment.
 
FIP:
Thanks for the response to my post.

I understand your concern, but I believe that mark is way too symmetrical to be gas cutting.
Enjoy playing phone/e-mail tag with Ruger.
I expect Ruger to tell you to just keep shooting it, as many here have already advised.

Be sure and post how things worked out with Ruger, etc.
 
My guess is it is a tooling mark from manufacturing or assembly as it looks to be anodized/black, the same as the surfaces around it.
Click to expand...
I agree. A mark with powder burn on it will look very much like flame cutting, and unless you're using +P++++ ammo, I don't see that 80 rounds will cut any type of steel.

When the .357 Maximum appeared on the market, it was literally eating guns. (In fact, when I first heard about it, I asked the person who told me, "How are they going to prevent forcing cone erosion?" and then I forgot all about it. I just figured Ruger had found a way.)

Flame cutting is the leeching of carbon from steel. Stainless steel resists much better than standard steel, but even it can erode. And if a manufacturer doesn't watch its heat treat, erosion can be greatly accelerated. If you determine what you're experiencing is gas gutting, you need to send the gun back and have the steel checked. Ruger's pretty good, though.

Please keep us apprised.
 
Called Ruger this morning. They said to email them the photos (same ones originally posted, above) and they'd get back to me. I'll keep you posted.
 
I still believe that the number of rounds and the type of metal are not as critical here as the temp. of the gas and the angle it is hitting the metal. We don't know what kind of powder was used. We don't know how much of the escaping gases were venting directly out the top of the cylinder throat and how much were venting out the sides. We don't know if the cylinder face was machined parallel to the forcing cone. If the gas was hot enough and vented long enough and most of it was directed straight up at the top strap, it will cut a groove. Most of the .357 snubs I have seen that were fed hot +P rounds showed some degree of flame cutting. The photos shown here definitely look like the beginnings of flame cutting. In the first photo look at the fan shaped marks emanating forward from the groove. Once the groove develops enough depth the gas will be directed to the sides allow it to escape and retard the cutting action. Given the thickness of the top strap it doesn't really weaken the frame. I would definitely talk to Ruger and see what they say. Personally I wouldn't sweat it but keep an eye and see how it develops. And limit shooting hot loads.
 
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