Does this shotgun exist?

[SomeKid]

I was curious if any of you know of a shotgun, fitting this configuration, I will state up front it is not the most conventional in the world. It is, to me, the best configuration for my needs/desires in a HD shotgun.

12 gauge, semi-auto, magazine fed (preferably more than single digits, I know it would be a large mag, but +10 or more works fine for me).

Lastly, and this is the part that I have a hard time finding even under other more standard designs, it a bullpup configuration, fitting the above.

A few years ago I saw something close to what I described, it looked like a massively over-built AK. Aside from being a non-bullpup (which is mainly for space saving, I am not all that concerned otherwise) it looked rather like an excellent HD shotgun.

So, does anyone know of a shotgun fitting this description?

 

[NG VI]

You mean the Saiga 12?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/.../12/albums-z210-macabre1-2007-img-4336-tm.jpg

 

[xx7grant7x]

yes saiga 12 was my first thought too no bullpup that i know of though...

 

[shevrock]

i actually remember seeing a video of a bullpup saiga.

 

[Deer Hunter]

Why not get a Saiga-12 with a folding stock?

 

[Freedomv]

At one time they made the "street sweeper" A drum fed, short barreled, 12 gauge semi auto.
Try googling for it.

Vern

 

[shevrock]

they don't really sell them anymore. plus you gotta do the tax stamp thing for the barrel size.

 

[glocksrfugly]

I am wondering why must it be a bullpup? Is it a matter of compactness only?
To me you lose some of the good qualities of a shotgun with bullpup. Such as the sight radius and the way that the barrel "swings" on to a target.
Shotguns also have a good deal of recoil and a loud report; as well as rather long bolt travel in a semi-auto action. A bullpup will put all that much closer to your face. Recoil will be more noticeable because the much shorter length means less gun to soak it up.
While I might own a bullpup in something of moderate (assault rifle) caliber like a .223 or 7.62x39 I would never want it in a 12 gauge shotgun.
You could have a Saiga 12 and do a stock conversion, adding the traditional AK pistol grip, buttstock, and trigger group. AK buttstocks are shorter than regular shotguns but still give you the benefits conventional stock. It still makes for a fairly compact gun, The only difference between it and a regular AK47 would be that it is a 12 gauge shotgun instead of the rifle carbine caliber of 7.62x39.

 

[ShunZu]

Spas-12 folder. Pump or Semi-auto, your choice. Holds 8 or 9, memory fails.

 

[scrat]

AA 12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c


one bad azzzz shot gun. id love to have one

 

[machinisttx]

Mossberg made a bullpup shotgun at one time, I can't remember the name/model number though.

I would suggest the Street Sweeper, but they're ATF classified as a "Destructive Device" even in semi auto configuration. Extremely stupid, but that's how they do things. I'm sure some were sold with barrels under 18", but most were not.

 

[Hoppy590]

would seem to me an AK bulpup kit might be modded to a Saiga 12

 

[SomeKid]

I was unaware they made large drum mags for the Saiga, how much do they run, and can you get Saiga's with the minimum legal barrel length (18 for shotguns, isn't it)?

 

[scrat]

AA 12 pics looks similar but not. take a look below
http://hight3ch.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/auto_shotgun.png

 

[Hoppy590]

http://www.mdarms.com/scripts/prodview.asp?idProduct=1714

and another company, Alliance?, makes a "wraithmaker drum" thats for the saiga.

 

[Realbigo]

were you thinking of the Pancor "Jackhammer"? Bullpup, and froma drum. It seems to me that I read somewhere that it had internal strikers in the drum for easch shell, and as such, the loaded drum could be set up as a land mine.

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh10-e.htm

 

[9mmepiphany]

the best bull-pup shotgun that fits most of your specs is the Neostead from South Africa. it had a 12 round capacity in 2 tubes...you could fill with different loads. the only thing is that it was a reverse pump action.

the mags rode above the barrel and the pump rode around the barrel. you pumped forward to eject and pulled back to chamber the next round. i remember them looking for a American manufacturer to partner with, but haven't heard anything recently onthe than seeing it in a movie recently

 

[86thecat]

For home defense something that goes bang every time its supposed to, and not when it isn't beats "cool" every time. I'd look to what the military uses as guidance.

 

[SomeKid]

Looks like we need a bit of clarification:

I am not even the least bit interested in guns I cannot have. This is why the Saiga suggestion appealed to me, I am able to purchase a Saiga without having to either do reams of paperwork and be NFA compliant, break laws, or spend thousands of dollars. So those of you pointing me at fully automatic guns when I asked for semi-auto, thanks, for nothing. If this was a dream thread I would be wanting a HK CAWS, but this is not a dream thread.

By chance, is it possible to get decent capacity mags/drums for the Saiga that do not run over 200 dollars? If not, how much are the 8 rounders?

 

[machinisttx]

The 20 round drums are around $300, and the Wraithmaker drums are pretty poor excuses for magazines. Wraithmaker suggests that you should have to modify your gun if their magazines don't work. I am unaware if MD Arms has ever delivered on the initial order of drums made a year or so ago.

Your choice of barrels in the Saiga shotguns are either 19" or 22"(IIRC, it might be 24" though) and threaded muzzle or non threaded muzzle.

Original russian 8 round magazines are not common, and generally expensive. IIRC, the last price I saw was $100+ each.

AGP makes 10 round stick type magazines which generally run about $50 each. IMO, that is a ridiculous price and the reason I still don't have any. At $30 each, I'd probably buy some. At $50 though, well...I've worked in a mold shop and that is ridiculous pricing.

Chinese made 5 rounders can be had for about $25(12 gauge).

I suggest heading over to the saiga-12.com forums for specific information on the saiga shotguns. Apparently they are very hard to get right now, and fools are paying $600-$800 for a gun that cost my local dealer a little over $360 a few months ago. I suggest not buying into the BS that the Saiga is the finest shotgun on earth for all purposes--it isn't and never will be. I own one and still prefer the Remington 870. I'm sure the Saiga has a particular niche it fills, but I can't seem to find it.

 

[Mp7]

dies it look a lil sumthin like dis?

http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm

 

[SN13]

SomeKid.

Please visit Saiga-12 (DOT) Com and go to the forums.

People have made Bull-pup Saiga-12s :

That one has a 5rd mag in but AGP makes 10 rd mags: http://www.agparms.com/

If you want a drum, get the MDArms. Cheaper and it works. I've used one in my Stock, no mod saiga. Did a Bump-fire mag dump too. Sweet.

Oh and as an Aside, I just shot 23/25 in trap last night with my 18" Saiga-12. So don't listen to the Fudds when they say the 18" barrel is too short to be useful.

If you have any questions about the Saiga-12, I recommend asking on the Saiga-12(dot)com/forums. THR is full of gun guys, S-12 is full of Saiga guys. They know their stuff.