Does Winchester Lap New M70 Barrels?

[Welding Rod]

Does Winchester Lap New M70 Barrels?

I bought a new .30-06 M70 Sporter. I decided to run an oily patch through the barrel and it felt like the barrel was full of sand. The first 1/2 dozen or so patches out the bore had a substantial residue on them that looked like either a red lapping compound or powdery fine red rust. There were no large particles.

I did not find normal fouling like you expect to find in a gun after test firing, just the red stuff. And the bore required more patches than any bore I have ever cleaned.

I have never seen a new out of the box gun with so much residue in the bore. Weird really. The rest of the gun looks perfect, so I am not too inclined to to think it is rust, but it is about the same color.

Another weird thing is I also bought a new M70 Featherweight .270 within a week of the sporter and it had non of the red residue what-so-ever, but had obviously been test fired.

Anyways, sound like lapping compound?

 

[Welding Rod]

For posterity: I just called Winchester and they do lap the Sporter model barrel.

 

[biggameballs]

What exactly is lapping?

 

[unwise11]

Lapping is applying an abbrasive SP? through the bore to file down any marks left by the machinery when the barrel is made, it reduces fouling and often increases accuracy..

 

[rbernie]

Lapping is usually done before the barrel is chambered and crowned, so that the ends can be lopped off - I'm curious if that's also Winchester's approach or if they lap once the barrel has been mounted. I would also have expected the rifle to have been test fired at the factory...

 

[Ole Humpback]

If its what I'm thinking it is, lapping compound is like silica based clay. Its a very fine abrasive used for polishing.

I've worked in a student machine shop for 3yrs and seen a red clay like bar used a few times for polishing. Seem to remember someone calling it lapping compound.

 

[jbkebert]

I would have to say no. In todays world if they can figure out a way to make it cheaper, crappier and charge more for it they do. I can't imagine todays Winchester being anywhere near well made. Not just Winchester, but Remington, Mossberg, Savage, any of them. If you want a well made rifle truley well made you better give Cooper or Dakota a call IMHO. Otherwise look for a Remington/Winchester made at least 30 years ago.

 

[coltsfreak18]

I would have to say no. In todays world if they can figure out a way to make it cheaper, crappier and charge more for it they do. I can't imagine todays Winchester being anywhere near well made. Not just Winchester, but Remington, Mossberg, Savage, any of them. If you want a well made rifle truley well made you better give Cooper or Dakota a call IMHO. Otherwise look for a Remington/Winchester made at least 30 years ago.

I humbly disagree. Today's Savages are solid and accurate, and, while the new FN Winchester M70s are a little new to judge well, they seem to be fantastically accurate and very well-made.

 

[Ole Humpback]

I would have to say no. In todays world if they can figure out a way to make it cheaper, crappier and charge more for it they do. I can't imagine todays Winchester being anywhere near well made. Not just Winchester, but Remington, Mossberg, Savage, any of them. If you want a well made rifle truley well made you better give Cooper or Dakota a call IMHO. Otherwise look for a Remington/Winchester made at least 30 years ago.

Fabrique Nationale owns both Winchester & Browning. FNH USA opened a brand new plant in South Carolina in 2006 just build new Winchester firearms. Care to point out a gun that FN has made in the last 100+yrs that hasn't stood the test of time (not talking popular here)?

 

[jbkebert]

I dearly hope that the new owners of Winchester turn things around. I have a couple firearms made by FN Herstal. My favorite being my Browning BDA.

The last time I held a Winchester rifle working the bolt felt like metal on sandpaper. Not smooth or slick the way they used to be.

The last Remington rifle I bought a 700 CDL in .260 Remington the trigger was horrible. It broke at 9.25 and as creepy as Micheal Jackson.

I own 9 870 wingmasters all from the 50's and 60's. Remington today can't make a 870 close to as durable as these.

I love Savage for thier accuracy no question. I recently picked up a model 10 fcp I was interested in purchasing. The action felt great, it shouldered well. However the stock felt like you could break it in half with your hands like a cheap pencil. Granted I could swap it out for a HS presicion but why so it be needed.

Some guns are made better than others. No doubt about it. It is not just firearms but most products in general. Building materials get poorer every year. I am certainly not picking on any one particular company. For the Winchster fans go pick up and fondel a pre-64 model 70 and compare it to one built in the last 4-5 years before Browning/FN took over. Tell me honestly there is not a diffrence.

I am not looking for a super duper accurate to 9 miles blah blah blah. I want a working gun that will withstand the rigors of working. It seems to be getting harder to find.

 

[whalerman]

With respect jbkebert, I don't know the answers to all questions. But you've raised a couple issues I'm just not sure of. First of all you say "building materials get poorer every year". Is this really true? Some would argue there are no better steels available than what are in our guns today. And no one can deny that fit and finish is related to craftsmanship. But today's computer manufacturing techniques have some advantages. I submit that we sometimes love the feel of older models, but the accuracy of new rifles is better than us old guys would like to admit. You mention the feel of the Pre-64 models. I'll never forget my Pre-64 girlfriend either. But sometimes I think its more emotion than fact.

 

[HOOfan_1]

Yet, some gun companies are making stuff better than they used to. Savage is one of them.

I think whalerman is correct, I think nostalgia clouds some people's judgment of newer guns. I've got 50 year old Marlins and Savages, and they don't shoot quite as well as some of their modern counterparts.

Two of the most accurate and well finished rifles I've ever had were made in 2008 and 2010, both of them CZs. I've handled the new Winchesters and they are things of beauty. I've handled a newer Winchester 1894, and it's fit and finish was better than my 1968 made 1894.

 

[jbkebert]

I agree that emotion does play a huge role. Yes it is a fact that barrels of today are straighter than those of yesterday. My problem is when I pick up a rifle that is supposed to have a walnut stock. It is feather light the wood has no character or the finish is so poor that the wood cannot show its grain.

I have to give credit to a few manufactures. I recently picked up a CZ 550 american premium grade. The stock is beautiful and there is some heft to the rifle. So many guns these days are some light weight mountain rifle. That's great most are not pleasant to shoot in a heavier caliber.

The comment about materials getting poorer I am refering to general building materials. Finding a straight 2x4 or 5/4 decking that is straight and that has enough grain to hold a screw is hard to come by.

Like most things you pay for quality yes CNC manufacturing is great it just does not have the look and feel of a work of art. I go to a gun shop and am just left feeling like man if this it. Granted beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just can't find beauty in synthetic rifles with cheap looking cammo stocks. I want a chunk of iron in my hands with rich wood that doesn't look like it was made by mattel. Perhaps its just me.

To be fair I have not played with a new Winchester if the bolt feels like a Browning A-bolt or a Tika t-3 I may be interested. If I feel metal on metal grinding like the last few I have laid hands on. Well no thanks.

 

[Ole Humpback]

I have shot a lot with a 1952 built Model 94 Winchester and I must admit that it does not even come close to comparing to my 1981 built Model 81 Browning Lever Rifle. The Model 94 is solid & shoots well, but theres something about the way the action works that leaves one desiring a more "solid & consistent" feel while cycling. The BLR on the other hand feels like your working a bolt action rifle, clean & crisp each time. If Browning can build a lever action rifle better than a Pre-64 Model 94 Winchester 30yrs after the fact in Japan, its a near reality that they can take the Model 70 and make it far superior to what they were even 5yrs ago.

 

[HOOfan_1]

My problem is when I pick up a rifle that is supposed to have a walnut stock. It is feather light the wood has no character or the finish is so poor that the wood cannot show its grain.

I've got plenty of 40+ year old rifles with stocks just like that. Today those same rifles would have a synthetic stock though.

I don't think I've seen a modern rifle with a walnut stock that didn't have at least decent wood.

 

[jbkebert]

I think I inadvertantly thread jacked this thing. I am sorry to the OP.

 

[ironhead7544]

I have found that most new rifles have a lots of grunge in the barrel right out of the box. Just clean it out good before firing. I generally polish it out also, with JB Bore cleaner.