Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Doesn't the military use pistol grips on 870

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by JBrady555, Nov 14, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JBrady555

    JBrady555 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Messages:
    742
    Location:
    Panama City, FL
    I have a question about pistol grip stocks on shotguns. It seems like the majority of people on various gun forums seem to think that the stock configuration is better than "upgrading" to a piston grip style stock. Personally I agree, but why does the military 870s all seem to have stocks with pistol grips built in. I could be wrong about this but from the research that I've done, all the pictures I have found of 870s in the military have these type of stocks. Why do they think they are better while civilians think they are not?
     
  2. MIL-DOT

    MIL-DOT member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,110
    Location:
    Georgia,C.S.A.
    I think they prefer them because they ARE "better." I personally like the traditional stock better, but that's just a personal preference based on asthetics, not function or practicality. The stock/pistol grip combo unit allows the most verstility,the shooter can shoot from the shoulder, but also can hold the gun closer in, which I imagine can sometimes be preferred in a limited space environment, like room-to-room fighting. The PG also affords a firmer,more stable platform when shooting from the hip than a traditional stock does.
     
  3. heavyhands

    heavyhands Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    8
    I think most of the negative responses are with SG with just a pistol grip and no stock. As far as I know there are no issues with pistol grips with a stock among civilians- in fact I think they are very popular. Also the mil use the SG for breaching and the pistol grip provides for more angles for a better shot.
     
  4. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    10,222
    Location:
    Georgia
    The only purpose the shotgun is serving currently with the military is to blow locks off doors. Most soldiers who carry them also carry their M-4 carbine as their primary weapon. The Pistol grip only option along with a shorter barrel makes for a smaller package to carry around and serves its purpose. A PGO option for most other uses is a bad idea. The pistol grip in conjunction with a regular stock, AR pattern, is actually a good idea.
     
  5. JBrady555

    JBrady555 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Messages:
    742
    Location:
    Panama City, FL
    thanks for the responses
     
  6. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Messages:
    21,221
    Location:
    AL, NC
    Doesn't the military use pistol grips on 870

    Not on all of them, no. Not even on a majority of the ones I've seen. Most had conventional stocks.

    I'm not even sure how many 870s are left on the books at this point...
     
  7. Ehtereon11B

    Ehtereon11B internet infantryman

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Messages:
    983
    I haven't seen any 870s in my time of service. Every shotgun we use are Mossberg 500 variants. Since we use them almost exclusively for door breaching, they come with pistol grips and no shoulder stock.
     
  8. kayak-man

    kayak-man Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,126
    Location:
    PAC-NW
    Mil-Dot,

    I respectfully disagree with your statement that pistol grip/shoulder stocks are superior.

    Do you mean that more AR style stocks are collapsible "__ Position" and that is why they are easier to hold close, because you can change the length of pull and overall length? or are you talking about tucking the stock under your armpit?

    I see no reason why you could not hold the shotgun in such a matter with a conventional stock.

    When shooting form the hip, I find that any type of AR style stock gets in the way more than a conventional rifle/shotgun stock. Personally, I think its also a little slower to bring the gun to bear with an AR style stock, not much slower, but a little.

    I think there are some areas where a conventional stock actually performs better than an AR style stock. The two that come to mind are shooting supine, and reloading.

    I haven't had a chance to play around with shooting a pistol gripped shotgun from the supine position, but a with the conventional stock, it was pretty ergonomic. It looks like the grip angle of a pistol grip shotgun would bend the wrist at an uncomfortable angle.

    As far as reloading, if you bring the muzzle up and rotate the gun like you would a pistol or AR, the conventional stock keeps everything in line with the forearm. Now, your just holding the weight of the gun, and allowing the stock to provide a little bit of leverage against the fore arm. If you have a pistol grip, its still doable, but I IMHO it puts more torque on the wrist, and its harder to get the stock to comfortable line up with the wrist.


    That said, if you have a way to run the gun that works well for you, that's really all that matters.

    YMMV

    JBrady... sorry about hijacking your thread...

    Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson
     
  9. ScrapMetalSlug

    ScrapMetalSlug Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2011
    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    Bluegrass state
    Most of the time the shotguns remained in the shipping container or packed under a bunch of gear in the back of the truck. They were all mossbergs that usually only came out for sensitive item inventories. They had pistol grips, but were only used for breaching. The only exception in our unit was some of the husky drivers carried shotguns because the space inside the husky was so cramped.
     
  10. dprice3844444

    dprice3844444 member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    4,264
    Location:
    se fla i love claymores 01/sot
    standard stock is easier to butt stroke with
     
  11. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    5,365
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    The Mossy and Remy 12 gauges do frequently have pistol grips. They are almost exclusively used for breaching locks/doors/hinges, etc.

    Compact, light, etc. Soldiers also have their own rifles and have many others stacked on the walls with rifles.
     
  12. Virginian

    Virginian Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    4,024
    Location:
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Don't forget the military traded in the M-14 for the M-16, and the 1911 Colt for the 9mm Beretta, so don't get too enamored of them. Remington, Winchester, Browning, Ithaca, and Benelli all declined to submit a bid the last time they went looking for a pump gun. Mossberg "won" that bid. Not taking away from them; the gun met all requirements, but apparently the rest figured they are more trouble than they are worth.
     
  13. Uniquedot

    Uniquedot Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    924
    Location:
    Alabama
    The mil spec was a sheet of paper. None of the other manufacturers met the specs on that paper because the mossbergs were the only ones with dual extractors and therefore there was no other competition. The guns are more or less disposable commodities as they were not required to pass more than 3000 rounds in testing. The loose tolerances in the mossbergs are probably a plus too when it comes to functioning in the mud. I'm sure the other manufacturers would have loved to have won that contract, but they didn't meet the spec requirements on paper. It has turned out good for mossberg as they have been able to invest greatly in R&D in other areas.
     
  14. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Messages:
    21,221
    Location:
    AL, NC
  15. Uniquedot

    Uniquedot Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    924
    Location:
    Alabama
    You know i was going to mention that some of the R&D was totally wasted on crap like that, but decided to leave it alone. Looks like they are now putting most of their advertising efforts into the flex system.
     
  16. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    5,068
    I think the main reason why they use pistol grips is because they use rifles with pistol grips. Allows them to adapt quicker to the shotgun if it has a similar feel.
     
  17. Drail

    Drail Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,378
    Generally a long heavy gun is much easier hold up ready for immediate use with only one hand if it has a pistol grip type stock. It also gives a little more control when moving through doorways, etc. If I am not restricted in a confined space with hallways and doors I much prefer a straight stock. But I learned to shoot long before pistol grip stocks came into vogue. One other advantage of the pistol grip is that it keeps your strong hand thumb out of your face during recoil. I still have fond memeories of one instructor who would smack you upside the head any time he saw you gripping the stock with your thumb on the same side of the stock as your face. He wanted the thumb on the off side. He was right of course.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  18. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,195
    Location:
    SC (Home), VA (Work)
    I rather suspect that the military experience/use would dictate the particulars on the shotgun.

    In 20 years aboard submarines, not once did I ever see or handle a shotgun with pistol grips. And the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 were both used aboard the various submarines I served aboard. (The Mossberg 500 was most common.)

    Personally, I don't see the purpose of putting pistol grips on a shotgun of this particular design (pump action). I do not see how it would improve performance.

    Now, there ARE other designs of shotguns used in the military, some of which do have pistol grips. And there may even be variants on the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 which have pistol grips.
     
  19. Pronghorn19

    Pronghorn19 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    45
    I think that it also has something to do with ease of learning/use. I shoot skeet and trap leagues, and you see new shooters struggling to properly hold the shotguns all the time. It takes a feel and a comfort with the weapon to really get good at shooting it. The "traditional" stock configuration is harder to master, but once you've got it, it's much nicer. (in my opinion) Pistol grips on rifles and shotguns make holding and aiming easier. I find that especially with shotguns it's bulky, gets in the way, and limits maneuverability. However, it's much easier to just pick up and use with minimal training.
     
  20. AI&P Tactical

    AI&P Tactical Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2012
    Messages:
    485
    Location:
    Michigan
    Stock like the Speedfeed III, IV, IV and the M-4 type stocks are superior on a fighting shotgun. The reason have been hashed on on every forum out there. They also are superior when it comes to weapons retention. A weapon with a conventional stocked weapon can be taken from you in a second. The above stocks give you a different way to hold the weapon so you can hang on to the thing in a struggle. Been there, done that and got the T-shirt.
     
  21. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Messages:
    4,193
    Location:
    Cape Cod
    Superiority is dictated by purpose. If you spend most of your time in an armored vehicle where space is a commodity, then PGO starts to make more sense. Particularly if you're a turret gunner and may be called upon to wield the weapon from a small space made smaller by your body armor and crew-served weapon to engage a target at a very awkward angle.

    Doors have already been mentioned, so I won't go there. Some other uses: MPs at Camp Bucca Iraq (prison camp, now closed) carried shotguns with a regular butt stock and bean bag rounds for prison population control.

    More recently, I served with units in Afghanistan who issued PGO shotguns to the turret gunners, with 2 3/4 00 buck. PGO is much easier to maneuver in a vehicle if a threat pops up too close to use the crew-served weapon. Additionally, those good folks also were issued M-4s and could more easily sling away (or buckle with quick release) to get the shotgun out of the way.
     
  22. Brasso

    Brasso Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2003
    Messages:
    419
    Location:
    Alabama
    I much prefer a standard stock. I find the pistol grip configuration to be much slower to shoulder, manipulate, and shoot. Just a negative in every way. Some folks will say that it's harder for someone to grab it out of your hands if it has a pistol grip. I don't believe that to be true.

    Standard stock all the way. I do wish the manufacturers would make the stocks adjustable. I think that for the majority of people, me included, a 14" LOP is way too much. 13" is probably better for most. An adjustable butt pad for example would solve many problems.
     
  23. Skribs

    Skribs Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2010
    Messages:
    5,807
    Location:
    Lakewood, Washington
    I've shot with straight stock and with a pistol grip+stock, and I much prefer the straight stock on a shotgun. It prevents a smaller verticle line and it's easier to load shells into, IMO. I can see why a pistol grip would be preferred by people who are used to shooting modern rifles, however.
     
  24. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    25,179
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    I'm a wing shooter. Pistol grips suck for that. I prefer a properly fitted (shimmed or custom) standard stock and use my dove gun, a 20" 20 gauge SxS Spartan, as my home defense. This gun is extremely quick on target and I've lad LOTS of practice with it killing dinner. I just stick 3 buck in it for HD duty after decocking it.

    Home defense is NOT the same as combat. Folks don't seem to understand this. All the slings and barrel shrouds and stuff just get in the way on a HD gun. Maybe a light, but I'd rather just carry my mini mag. Actually, I use the safe room strategy, don't wanna go lookin' around the house if I can help it. But, there's always that bump in the night that doesn't warrant calling the law over. The little coach gun is REALLY compact for this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  25. snooperman

    snooperman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,143
    +1 on what MCgunner said.. Keep it simple for home defense. That said, some swat teams etc use pistol grip shoulder stocks because at times they have to move about using one hand on the shotgun while the other hand is used to manipulate a door etc and the pistol grip shoulder stock affords better control and can be fired using one hand as well.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page