Dog shooter get's justice from victim

[Tamara]

CentralTexas,

Shooting a sick and dying farm dog is one thing but this was another....

No, it wasn't.

To put it in its simplest, ugliest, and most brutal terms:

The cute widdle puppies were his chattel property.
He shot them.
Too bad, so sad. Period.


I love my pets, but they are my property. If someone tries to damage them unlawfully, I'll deal with them as I may legally deal with someone trying to damage any other article of my property. If I want to dispose of them as I see fit, then I may be scum that should be shunned by my neighbours, but I am well within my rights vis a vis my chattel property.

If you want to redefine pets as citizens with rights as opposed to property, that's your problem. Move from TX to CA and work on extending the franchise to domestic livestock.


(What just kills me about this whole debate is that I'd wager that some of the folks I'm arguing against don't even have pets, while I have to crane my neck to the side to type this because Mittens is trying to eat my earlobe in a frenzy of affection... )

 

[R.H. Lee]

I have no argument that your animals are your chattel property, and you do have a right to kill them if you want. However, just because something is not illegal does not make it a good idea. None of us know why the subject knucklehead was charged. It may have been the manner of death he inflicted on the three puppies in the shallow grave. Or not. Typically DA's will bring the highest most serious charge possible, then negotiate downward from there. Anything for a conviction. And yes I do have pets. A 100 lb black lab (neutered) and a black cat (also neutered and saved from execution by his previous owners).

 

[CentralTexas]

I'm at 5 dogs at present

from rescues, strays etc.

Women & Blacks were once property in the US. I'm hopeful that we are making progress on the others.....
Now before you say I am comparing women & blacks to dogs etc. I'm making a statement on our evolving mindset not a comparison. So please don't pull out the accusations of misogyny or racism.
CT

 

[Tamara]

Women & Blacks were once property in the US.

Oddly, us women and them black folks belong to the species h. sap. sap., a distinction not shared by kitties and puppies (nor cows). Is raising veal calves felony animal cruelty? How about de-beaking poultry? Should we be roundin' up them farmers and stripping their right to vote and own guns?

So, tell me, if it's illegal to kill a puppy, is it legal to kill a rattlesnake? If not, why not?

A boy is a puppy is a rat is a liver fluke is a streptococcus bacillus...

 

[Diggler]

Because we only want to save the cute ones.

Nobody is trying to "save the house mouse" or "save the mosquitos".

If they inconvenince us or cause us discomfort, it's ok to kill them. Pretty hypocritical.

 

[CentralTexas]

Please follow instructions

"So please don't pull out the accusations of misogyny or racism."

So you still tried to make me out to be comparing animals and women/blacks.

I'll go slow with the concept "Americans once thought it was ok to own blacks"- that was wrong I think you may agree , I'm hoping as we progress as humanity we will also change our attitudes of well a dog is property so if I want to dogfight it or strangle it tough/big deal.

Diggler,
Don't call me a hypocrite, I truly practice do as little harm as possible short of living in a cave. No meat, leather carseats or clothing etc., I don't kill mice, snakes etc. if there is no immediate danger.
Yup, don't broadbrush me and I won't make fun of your lack of teeth or mobile home. Yes that is a smart comment, so sue me....
CT

P.S. are we done with this dead horse yet?

 

[Diggler]

CT, that wasn't specific to you. That was a statement about the general lack of consistency in many animal rights activists' arguments. And no, I don't live in a mobile home and I do have all my teeth. How else would I be able to eat all those delicious medium rare steaks?



I hope the dead horse you're referring to lived a long, peaceful life and died in its sleep... I don't want any Florida LEOs having to do an investigation...

 

[glock23]

WHAT A SICK BASTARD

i think i know who this dog killer is.they say he is from german decent,anyway this is the dog killer

 

[2nd Amendment]

Why would we want to change our attitude towards owning animals? Blacks and women were considered property at various points by various cultures and this was(and remains) wrong because they are human. That's it. That's the only reason. Dogs are not. Never will be. And thus our responsibility to them ends at not being overly cruel. Period. We will never change the attitude because animals ARE property.

At least until the day they are made, by decree of some lunatic court, human. I would not care to live in this world after that day.

 

[Horsesense]

The guy did nothing wrong, outside of unsafe gun handling. The dogs were his property; do property rights mean anything to you? If he was torturing them I would be all for punishing him but he was apparently taking precautions to make clean kills.

You say he should have been more responsible but he WAS taking responsibility for his property and disposing of animals that were literally a growing problem. From atop your high horse, you smugly proclaim that he should have had the dog fixed. To that I say it was his dog and if he didn’t want to do that than it was his right, as long as he took responsibility for the puppies.

You all set atop your high horse and pronounce what a free man should do with HIS property, in this case dogs, others are doing the same thing, the only difference is instead of dogs they proclaim that a free man can not own the gun of his choice.

How dose the old saying go "in for a penny, in for a pound?" just where do you get off messing with property rights on one side and standing up for gun rights on the other? Freedom can not be aggregated.

 

[Tamara]

CentralTexas,

So you still tried to make me out to be comparing animals and women/blacks.

You failed to answer the meat of my post:

If this guy is guilty of FELONY Animal Cruelty, is a beef or poultry farmer?

Does "Felony" really mean "something I find distasteful"?

 

[CentralTexas]

A couple of things-

"Why would we want to change our attitude towards owning animals? "

Because the ones I see turned in at the local shelter are blinded and maimed in dog fights were people bet on them for fun. Where dogs backs are broken by drunk boyfriends who got mad the dog bit him for putting a cigarette out on it's back, etc. etc. etc. If you don't understand why I'm sorry for ya...


"At least until the day they are made, by decree of some lunatic court, human. I would not care to live in this world after that day."

I'm sure that was said in a friendly discussion just before the Civil War about slaves also. My point is animals don't have to be eaten, experimented on etc. and just in the last 10 years I've seen great growth in those areas. Views change & so do people, I realized years ago I could coexist with the other animals on the planet, someday I hope we all can.

"You all set atop your high horse and pronounce what a free man should do with HIS property"

Yet you say if he was torturing them it would be okay to punish him? Have you know respect for property rights high horse? They are his property to torture as he sees fit by your logic....

"You failed to answer the meat of my post:

If this guy is guilty of FELONY Animal Cruelty, is a beef or poultry farmer?"

Yes, if in violation of animal cruelty laws. You do understand that industry has regulations on killing animals for food production???
Maybe you thought he was going to eat the puppies?

CT

 

[Matt G]

Heh. For the --what? Fourth time in the last coupla weeks? --I completely agree with Tamara. This is a trend!

As I said on TFL, this is just silly-- it's okay when an agency euthanizes a puppy, but it's a felony when a private citizen humanely puts down his own dog?!?

Oh, that's right-- "they have a chance, if you'll just take them to a shelter."

The Los Angeles Department of Public Works reports that Los Angeles city and county shelters send 120,000 dog and cat carcasses to rendering plants annually, averaging 20.4 tons of homeless animal bodies disposed of each week.

http://www.snapus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Turn_Key_Services

Oops. Guess not.

One shouldn't make an animal needlessly suffer, but if you can humanely put it down, I personally feel it's absolutely your right to do with your property as you wish. As my good friend Tamara said (and said again): They're NOT HUMAN.

 

[Tharg]

<<<blinded and maimed in dog fights (illegal) where dogs backs are broken by drunk boyfriends who got mad the dog bit him for putting a cig out on its back>>>
(huh? this tracked as a common occurance???) oh and of course - etc etc etc.... (hey - buddy - mr. high horse (dead or not) don't forget the people who can't take care of the pet cause it became a nuisance, or the person who had to move - and didn't think of his "charges" (property.. whatever) I know that you think your two examples are pretty common - but guess what - working w/ the people i've known/worked with - the two i've put out are not only common - but regular, where yours are not.

<<<I realized years ago i could coexist with the other animals on the planet.>>>
Guess what... the "other animals of the panet" don't give two bits if you don't hunt them or eat them. If you happen to be handy at the time - yer gonna be lunch. "coexist" is a term people made up to humanize the animals who could care less what you do, so long as it doesn't impact them... in which case they adapt or move on, there wasn't an animal conference one day that said "hey - those humans are pretty pushy... but i think we can co-exist"

Yer a vegan... figured... i was <-> this close to saying that on an earlier post... but it was just a feeling - now its a fact.. FINE - don't like the meat... sup to you. Homosapien is a omnivore. Veggies and Meat. setup that way. Some critters are herbivores - usually hunted by carnivores for food. Self decided victim, OBKB. Its a well proven concept that people/animals evolved/created/whatever for specific reasons. If we were meant to be vegitarians - we would have many many more molars.... Nature is your goal - get you a steak, since that is the path nature put out for you. Or do you support the vegitarianization of carnivores... since meat isn't necessary)

btw... if you partake in just about ANYTHING that would be considered normal in the US of A... you are upseting an animal somewhere... if you use cologne - the smell of it is not good to some critters. If you drive a car - the polution from said care isn't good for your "didn't get to make a decision in how dirty thier air is co-existing friend." Not to mention the materials used in making said car or vehicle which has surely ended some animals life somewhere in the line. the wood in your apartment, the steel in your cooking bits, in fact... i'd be willing to bet that your lifestyle as well as everyone about you has caused many animal deaths over the course of years. I guess you balance this out by not eating meat? No leather in yer car seat. (plastic wallet or leather? heh) Yes - Hypocrite. If you think living in the united states of america in a "normal" fasion (other than eating meat or having leather seats) doesn't effect the enviornment... (including said animals) then yes you are. You want to be one with nature and cause it no harm then do so... but until then its a wonderful sham so long as it doesn't effect the convenience aspects of your life.... (car/apartment/lights (light polution - discovery article)/garbage disposal/waste disposal/delivery of any product that requires distances of movement... I guess if it doesn't effect YOUR living - then its acceptable that your superior race should effect the lesser races as such. Oh wait... thats a description of me... and you... just we differ on our mindset.

Comparing the slavery of blacks to the ownership of dogs.. (arguing you don't want YOUR argument to be argued against doesn't stop it from happening) is ludicris. Yes the poeple of the time though blacks to be nothing more than animals/slaves. And the day a dog looks me in the eye and says "damn man... i'm yer best friend - but that S$&@ was STUPID" i will consider them canines who are to be loved, traded, sold, and bred as i see fit. (ok ok ok - the dog doesn't have to say those words... but he/she should say SOMETHING before i'm gonna consider it an equal) The Concept of owning black homo sapiens or owning any color canine is comparable to fermenting orange... er.. oranges... and fermenting red... erm apples... The day we "progress" so far as fido tells me he's gonna S&#& on my carpet and i better like it is the day I figure we HAVE gone topsy turvey and the clueless among us have won and its only a matter of time before someone realizes the giant got old and is ripe for a take down.

you know - scientists have proven that plants scream when cut... you might want to quit eating or you might be harming a different living thing... Pssst... don't mow yer lawn either you bad person. Gonna report you to PETP ... people for the ethical treatment of plants. Thier membership isn't very high - apparently they die off to quick since they don't eat any plants and are in cahootz w/ PETA... Last i heard they were processing dirt so as to make sure it didn't have any living microbes in it they might in-advertantly eat and cause harm to.... the diet isn't going mainstream i don't think.....(this last a joke ... just in case you think my /sarcasm is real....altho i HAVE read that plants do scream when cut....)

oh wait - plants DO live. where does life begin/end for you? If it grows does it not live? its ok to eat vegtables/mow the lawn/trim the bushes cause... erm... they can't BARK at you?

Just wondering where the line of your superiority ends, and enables you to tell the rest of the public where thiers SHOULD end... because of the way yours does.

J/Tharg!

 

[LAK]

CentralTexas

Yes, if in violation of animal cruelty laws. You do understand that industry has regulations on killing animals for food production???

And just what are the industry regulations on killing animals for food? What are their regulations for killing animals who are for whatever reason deemed unsuitable? And what are the regulations for persons outside of industry killing for food? Like hunters? What about animals that are classed as "pests" and vermin which are not intended for food, but are simply unwanted?

 

[2nd Amendment]

Because the ones I see turned in at the local shelter are blinded and maimed in dog fights were people bet on them for fun. Where dogs backs are broken by drunk boyfriends who got mad the dog bit him for putting a cigarette out on it's back, etc. etc. etc. If you don't understand why I'm sorry for ya...

These individual acts by specific persons do not alter the gulf between human and animal. They also do not taint the vast number of people who enjoy and care for the pets and livestock they have. These events are not a reason to try and arbitrarily alter the fact that these are lesser creatures which we have, by dint of either superior evolution or decision of God, the right to decide tha fate of.


I'm sure that was said in a friendly discussion just before the Civil War about slaves also.

Doesn't matter if it was or was not. Apples and oranges discussion. Slavery was a discussion of other humans. This is a discussion of animals. A lower, non-self-aware life form(s) unable to engage in most, if any, abstract thought or self-recognition. They are not US and, frankly, we are not THEM. We are animals only in the most simplistic sense: We are not minerals or plants. We share certain biological functions with them. Big whoop.

No, the only way this sort of change will happen is if we come to accept that we are somehow no better than them. The ultimate levelling of the standard of living. Why complain about a globalized Third World living standard when we're no different than animals in the field or trees, eh? It's a modernist(post-modernist?) bit of feel-good controlism and no, I can't imagine living in a world like that.

****************************************************

I like this little graphic:

 

[CentralTexas]

Ok, I'm done

It's been stated I'm abnormal, a "Vegan" (is that a dirty word or just an insult?), learned new science facts.

I could go through each argument such as the old tired-
"No matter what you do, drive, breath, wear cologne" you harm animals or whatever other dreck the meat industry (follow the money trail) put's out
and point out that maybe YOU should not drive or have guns as there could be an accident involving a child ya know. Sarah Brady selling "How to Debate" tapes now?

It's simple, I am in great health as are the vast majority of non meat eaters. I do so for my view of what's ethical, I don't expect you to do the same. I can live without causing any unecessary pain or suffering and have a very happy life so I put out that effort. Don't like it? Fine! But don't go for the character assasination or you are superior crap.
If you would like to take this way off topic thread to the Round Table I'd be happy to just go into insult mode instead of rational debate.
CT

 

[Tamara]

CentralTexas,

a "Vegan" (is that a dirty word or just an insult?)

A Vegan is a vegetarian who does not use animal products at all. For example, your garden variety vegetarian is usually okay with eating a Krispy Kreme, but a Vegan wouldn't if it contained eggs or animal fat.

Since it's what you claim to be, I figured you'd like to know the term.

If you would like to take this way off topic thread to the Round Table I'd be happy to just go into insult mode instead of rational debate.

I'm closing this way off-topic thread. If you wish to re-open the debate in RT, feel free. "Insult mode", as you call it, is not welcome there, either.