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Don't be this guy.

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by 72coupe, Jan 30, 2012.

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  1. 72coupe

    72coupe Member

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    I was at the range Saturday instructing the nieghbors kids in the mysteries of NRA High Power shooting when a man and his wife and his 2 sons and thier wives came. The elder was giving instructions on how to fire his new telescoped M4 style AR.

    I am trying to get the kids into a sling supported sitting position when I hear a boom worthy of a 300 magnum. I look down to the end of the range where the M4gery instructor is and there is a flurry of activity down there. I walk down to see a brand new once fired rifle blown up.

    One of the guys ask him what kind of ammo he was shooting and he says they were his very first handloads. My friend ask him what his load was and the M4 guy says 25.5 grains. I ask him 25.5 grains of what, he says Tite Group. I say you are lucky to be alive.

    He goes on to say that he bought all the reloading stuff from a friend and that he consulted a loading manual and decided that 25.5 grains of powder was the correct charge and used the powder he had even though he could not find Tite Group in his manuel. He also said that he was loading a flake powder but my data says the Tite Group is a ball powder. Also I asked a friend to run this load through his NECO load program to get an estimate of pressure (303,000) and it says that 25.5 grains of Tite Group filled the case 126% full.

    So I am thinking he didn't even know what powder he had.
     
  2. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    Just think about it, this guy has already passed on his genes. Hello Darwin, I think you missed one!
     
  3. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

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    Wow!!! I really don't know what else to say.
     
  4. crazy4milsurps

    crazy4milsurps Member

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    Geez, glad no one was hurt. Some people should not jump into reloading, I was taught by my pap at a young age of six. He explained what can happen if I screwed up a load. After watching and listening for a few months he stood back and said here is the recipe, load it up and you'll shoot them this afternoon. That is a fool proof way to teach awareness!
     
  5. JohnM

    JohnM Member

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    Amazing. We seem to be reading about things like this more and more.
    People with only a minimal understanding of fire arms take it on themselves to reload, totally clueless about the process.
    What I'm afraid of is a detrimental effect on our sport.
     
  6. Damon555

    Damon555 Member

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    I suppose this happens every year about the time people start getting out with their Christmas presents. People flock to these boards around that time asking about the best rifle or the best loads or the best ammo. He obviously didn't ask the right person....or pay any attention to his reloading manuals.
     
  7. HOOfan_1

    HOOfan_1 Member

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    When all else fails, read the manual

    Or to us youngsters
    RTFM
     
  8. wanderinwalker

    wanderinwalker Member

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    Well, I have to say, everybody survived at least. That's a good starting point.

    As for hearing and reading about these things more an more, I suspect it is because the ever-rising price of ammo (and everything shooting-related) has driven more and more people to reload. And not everybody reloads because they enjoy reloading, unlike some members of Internet message boards. People do it because they feel it's reload or not shoot because of the cost. (Just my thoughts, not fact or gospel.)

    Anyway, to my mind the shooting sports in general and reloading in particular are more apprentice-oriented, or should be. I know in the days of my grandfather and father, these things were taught to the youngsters by the older generations, thus passing along key knowledge, which is then passed down again. Sure, you can certainly learn by reading the books and asking online, but sometimes it is more helpful to have a mentor who can explain why some powders are only used in pistols, why you take certain precautions, etc, etc.

    Of course, this is not just limited to the shooting sports. And I know many people learn things by reading the manual. But sometimes black and white copy doesn't substitute for a living, breathing person who has been there and done it and can explain why. And I understand society is moving away from the apprenticeship and toward having to use the book and following the instructions.

    (Oh, and 72, good for you introducing more people to the madness of Highpower! :evil: )
     
  9. 72coupe

    72coupe Member

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    I told the guy there are no flake powders in America that are suitable for reloading rifle. He was astounded that no one had told him that.

    I then let him shoot my Model 70 in 223 that was loaded with Red Dot and 55 grain cast bullets. He showed me the target he had shot. He shot 3 shots and the group was 1 inch at 100 yards.

    The Model 70 is the one with the black stock.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Damon555

    Damon555 Member

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    Very true.

    I was lucky enough to have a friend who was taught by his father teach me. Having read several manuals I was still pretty lost. This was in the days before forums like this were popular. Watching it being done is by far the best way to learn....light bulbs were lighting up like you wouldn't believe as he went through it step by step for me.
     
  11. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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  12. HKGuns

    HKGuns Member

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    At least he was able to speak afterward. Glad the kids weren't hurt. Although, you have to wonder if they'll ever be interested in shooting again.
     
  13. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    I'm not surprised. For every "what is the best ammo for..." thread over half the responses are always people telling the person they need to start reloading.
     
  14. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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  15. Tim the student

    Tim the student Member

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    Holy smokes...
     
  16. 72coupe

    72coupe Member

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    I have seen 4 M16/AR15s blown up. 2 were from not dumping the rice paddy water out before firing. 1 was from a guy who fired a round with no powder and without checking for a bullet in the bore fired another round. Then this guy.

    The common thing about these 4 incidents is no one was hurt. The AR 15 is kind to the shooter, even stupid ones.
     
  17. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Wow, I'm new, getting the stuff, and my concern is how light to load, as I was trying to make 3/4 oz reduced recoil buck for my 12ga, I ended up using 20ga data, understanding that the pressure is going to vary from the listed (probably by quite a bit)
    it works, but is dirty, however I've read that Red Dot is, unless you get in it's sweet spot.

    Overcharge is why I weighted every load once I put the shot cup in, when I start loading for my rifles, it's going to haunt me, not a bad thing I think.

    Worst pics I ever saw when I was in the army, was from a double feed that managed to touch off the chambered round, hand damage and some face damage.
     
  18. denton

    denton Member

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    Of course he was. Anything he uses is, by definition, a flake powder.
     
  19. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Unless it is extruded Stick type rifle powder.
    Or Spherical (ball) type powder.
    Or Cordite, that looks like uncooked spaghetti.
    Or Black powder that is granulated.

    rc
     
  20. BCRider

    BCRider Member

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    There is so much information out there these days about everything that what this guy did is just unforgivable. Aside from various books on the topic of reloading there's numerous web sites that parrot the same lessons and cautions on the web. And there's any number of excellent videos on You Tube for those that need to see it being done.

    Frankly if he can screw this sort of thing up with so many assumptions and "I know best" practices then he really shouldn't own firearms. I'm not even sure it's a good idea to trust him with the car keys he used to get to the range either.....
     
  21. ns66

    ns66 Member

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    i don't understand much about reloading, practically the only thing get reused (so money saved) is the brass right? you need to buy new bullet/powder/primer, i mean is it worth so much trouble just to save/reuse brass a couple of more times? how much money saved? 20%?
     
  22. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    For common caliber handgun plinking rounds, powder and primer is around $.03/rd. bullet is between $.05 and $.15/rd depending on your choice (cheaper if you cast your own).

    Depending on caliber, there is significant savings.

    Rifle projectiles are expensive (for good ones) but there are deals out there. For plinking rounds you can save quite a bit. But it is a lot of work.

    Handgun ammo is relatively easy to reload.


    But you don't really save money. You just end up shooting more and spending all you have on components so you can fill up all your brass. :D
     
  23. blarby

    blarby Member

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    I miss having a use for cordite.

    My dads smooth bore naval gun on the bow of his pleasure boat...he swore by it. I used to love to sneak it out and use it for youthful purposes.

    Poor fella, mebbe you should have turned him on to THR :) A little late mebbe, but after some dutiful ribbing we could get him on the right track.

    We might have a few sets of camps on how to get there, but none of them would have been his way :)
     
  24. OkieGentleman

    OkieGentleman Member

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    Hot Loads

    I had a friend a number of years ago got confused about some load data, he used .357 mag data to load his 38 Specials. I asked him if he had a bullet puller when he asked me about them. He had decided to call me about the 50 rounds he loaded rather than shoot them. When he said no to the bullet puller I told him to bury them deep so the could not be found by accident. He asked me if he could not just shoot them in his 38 rather than wasting 50 round of good brass. After I explained what could happen to the pistol and anyone holding it, he buried them deep in the back yard. Then I spent an hour on the phone explaining why a 38 Special is the father to the .357 Magnum. I have gotten to where when I am explaining calibers to someone, I tell them it is like labeling French Perfume, there is no rime or reason for some of the names.
     
  25. 72coupe

    72coupe Member

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    An engineer friend and fellow highpower shooter and joker suggested this method of load develpment for this fellow.

    "If he backs off 10% and the rifle still blows up, he should continue to back off in 1 grain increments until the rifle no longer blows up. At this point, you can assume that a maximum load has been reached."
     
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