glocktoberfest
member
when is the last time you open carried you weapon ? Sounds to me , like its time to stand up and exercise your rights ( OC ) instead of sitting back and watching others from the sidelines ?????
Doooh! Here we go again. Alexandria Va. Police harras law abiding gun owner!
- Thread starter mobeewan
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when is the last time you open carried you weapon ? Sounds to me , like its time to stand up and exercise your rights ( OC ) instead of sitting back and watching others from the sidelines ?????
hornadylnl
Member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
- Messages
- 375
If Zumbo were to ever peruse these forums, his head would spin. THR is probably one of the biggest group lashings he received and yet there are many who post on here with beliefs no different than his. In fact, compared to some of you, Zumbo should change his name to Rambo.
PennsyPlinker
Member
The amount of hand wringing going on here just defies belief! 
This is turning out just like the thread on the kid with the AK. Once again we have a person doing nothing wrong, frightened citizens, overbearing cops, and a group of alleged pro RKBA people complaining about someone doing something completely legal!
In the other thread, the kid lived on the street where he was walking. Not many seemed to think he might just be walking home!
In this thread, the "anti" position seems to be, "Well, he shouldn't OC where it will draw attention of the police.
Really.
What does that leave open? OC in your own back yard at night?
The cops are supposed to enforce the law. They are not supposed to make it up. There is the probability that the cops were only obeying orders (remember how well that went in Nuremburg?) but even if that is the case, they still need sensitivity treatment
and the local authorities who gave the orders need to be prosecuted, persecuted, and all sorts of other ...cuted.
And the guy who was open carrying needs a medal, and a bunch of buddies to go along with him carrying as well the next time he goes out!
This is turning out just like the thread on the kid with the AK. Once again we have a person doing nothing wrong, frightened citizens, overbearing cops, and a group of alleged pro RKBA people complaining about someone doing something completely legal! In the other thread, the kid lived on the street where he was walking. Not many seemed to think he might just be walking home!
In this thread, the "anti" position seems to be, "Well, he shouldn't OC where it will draw attention of the police.
Really.
What does that leave open? OC in your own back yard at night?
The cops are supposed to enforce the law. They are not supposed to make it up. There is the probability that the cops were only obeying orders (remember how well that went in Nuremburg?) but even if that is the case, they still need sensitivity treatment
and the local authorities who gave the orders need to be prosecuted, persecuted, and all sorts of other ...cuted. And the guy who was open carrying needs a medal, and a bunch of buddies to go along with him carrying as well the next time he goes out!
Deanimator
Member
This raises a very important point.
Blindly following orders is a VERY dangerous proposition in a Dept. like Chicago or New Orleans. Corruption and outright criminality is so endemic in those places that just doing what you're told could land you in Federal prison.
I am not sure why most of you are so disturbed by what I said. Since I pretty much stand alone, your admonishments are a waste of time. Some people look around them and think, “I would die for these fair, wonderful people.” Some people look around them and think “Holy crap. These people are worthless. They are on their own.” Take your energies and use them to take an anti or fence-sitter shooting. I am going to bow out of this thread. I really have nothing more to add, and am just contributing to thread drift.
joab
Member
hat and only that is the entire issue, not whether he should or shouldn't OC and definitely not whether some agree or disagree
It is the law of the land and the PDs in those cities are sworn to uphold them, nothing more
Their only job is to resolve crimes and apprehend criminals, not make some up on a slow day
glocktoberfest
member
JOAB
what about stopping crime before it starts ? probable cause ? If an cop observes something that looks strange , should he be able to intervene ? Like a kid being pushed into a van ? A guy walking into a store with a gun ( in hand ) ? Should he investigate ? Yes or No
The examples you used are on their face evidence of kidnapping and brandishment (or the local equivalent) or robbery. So, there is already evidence that a crime is occurring. So, neither support your contention.
And no, it's not the job of the police to stop crime before it starts. If that's the goal, then searching individuals for evidence of conspiracy to commit a crime before the predicate step is taken would be standard procedure, which it isn't. Police may search if they have cause to believe a crime is being committed at that moment or has occurred.
joab
Member
Did Buzz answer your question adequately
Yes or No?
Yes or No
Yes or No?
Yes or No?
Now pray tell does this have anything at all to do with a person committing no crime being harassed even after it has been or should have been determined that he was committing no crime?
Yes or no?
As I explained in PM adults don't operate that way
Intelligent people give a reason for their answers because intelligent questioners will want one
This point as with the other has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion going on, why do you keep doing that?
Yes or No?
Wouldn't that fall under the heading of investigating a crime? Yes or No?
Wouldn't that be probable cause to investigate the crime of kidnapping?
Yes or No
Wouldn't that be probable cause to investigate possible crime?
Yes or No?
Wouldn't that fall under the heading of resolving/investigating crime?
Yes or No?
Now pray tell does this have anything at all to do with a person committing no crime being harassed even after it has been or should have been determined that he was committing no crime?
Yes or no?
No your point is that you think by trying to corner someone into a yes or no answer you win the argument.
As I explained in PM adults don't operate that way
Intelligent people give a reason for their answers because intelligent questioners will want one
This point as with the other has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion going on, why do you keep doing that?
glocktoberfest
member
BUZZ
my point is ( I just love how people pick apart comments to fit an agenda instead of answering the question ) if a cop sees something suspicious , should he investigate ? yes or no ?
You offered two situations where there was evidence that a crime was being committed in the officer's presence to show that officers should investigate circumstances prior to a crime being committed. Pointing that out wasn't "picking it apart" but showing that on its face, your argument fails.
But let's go to your second attempt. An officer is fully entitled to investigate something that peaks their interest, just as any other person can ask questions about or look into a situation that they think is strange. If state law allows, an officer can compel a person to provide ID. However, going beyond that requires reasonable suspicion that a crime is occurring or has occurred, absent the situation where a Terry frisk is allowed for officer safety.
Deanimator
Member
You mean like when those two Milwaukee PD officers gave that Laotian kid, dazed and bleeding from his rectum, back to Jeffrey Dahmer?
glocktoberfest
member
BUZZ , I read your by the book responce . Black & white . The problem with that is in the real world there are a lot of gray areas . Reminds me of my instructors in college . book smart , arrogant and no clue about the real world . How come it seems the worst offenders here are the ones with the most posts ?
joab
Member
Then why do you insist on Yes or No answers?
Why do you not accept the explained answers given when they directly answer your questions?
Why do you call people arrogant when they attempt to engage you as an adult?
Why do you attack those that do not give the answers you want to hear?
Why do you flip flop back and forth with your points, in this thread alone you have back pedaled and changed your position at least twice.
Are you here just to get attention and stir the pot?
Yes or No?
glocktoberfest
member
JOAB = 4228 posts . I rest my case . I think I'll go over to the autoloader forum and relax .
joab
Member
But
Is not carrying within the manner prescribed by law
joab
Member
Tell that to the guy that thought it was an appropriate analogy
joab
Member
Check all that arrogance with so few posts
That wasn't aimed at you
That wasn't aimed at you
coyote_jr
member
BTL
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
That's enough of that.
The abrasive speech aimed at each other needs to end.
The abrasive speech aimed at each other needs to end.
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