doors open outward? instead...

[ghostwriter]

OK, this might not belong here but with all the self defense training and stuff this crossed my mind the other day.

Notice how ALL the doors in a house open "inward"? If the PO-PO or a gang of assult ninjas show up and want to use a battering ram to get in your house, they bang it against the door jamb by the knob and it opens
inward easily because only a small piece of door jamb is holding it.
So...
Does anyone have their main security door open outward? The screen would be on the inside if you have one, cause the warm summer nights or days when the doors open would also allow the screen to keep out flying pests...and the main door would close tight against the door frame making it almost impossible for an intruder to bust in.
Any thoughts on this?
Good idea in light of the upcoming SHTF scenario(s)?

 

[MachIVshooter]

It's a common practice with commercial buildings for exactly the reason you cite; Much harder to break down. It's also extremely uncommon on private residences for the reason you cite: Screen door/storm door dilemma.

A more realistic approach is security doors and barred windows.

 

[kingcheese]

It's a common practice with commercial buildings for exactly the reason you cite

not quite, in commercial buildings all doors leading to an exit have to open outward in case of a fire or emergency, that way in the blinding smoke you can walk up to a door, try to open it, and if you cant open it away fromy you know to go a different way

you will notice in most commercial buildings, doors that you use to exit the building open out ward, doors you you use to get into an office or closet are opened toward you


heres the thing, if your door opens outwards, it is easier to jimmy the lock, because the door jamb is exposed from the outside, look at your door now from the out side, its got a piece of trim covering a lot of the door jamb, now look at it from the inside, the jamb is most likely slightly visable

and the last problem, if a door opens only toward you, the hinges are on the same side, door hinges in most homes can be popped apart with a hammer and screwdriver


so you can change the door to open outwqard, but there would be serious sercurity problems caused soley by you switching the door, if you change your door to open out ward you will most likely regret it

 

[Oyeboten]

My own preference is Steel ( 'Commercial' type ) Doors in Steel Jambs, opening outward.

Various kinds of Hinges are available which will not permit the Hinge Pin being driven out, since, when the Hinge Knuckle is outside, of course it is then exposed, and, ideally, ought to have 'secure' Hinge types.

Inside, it is very easy to have any of various secondary Locks or devices if wanted.

Usually, a good quality Commercial Passage Lock set, and, a Key-each-side Dead Bolt is plenty, and would not be easy to jimmy.

Some Key/Lock types have advantage for being harder to 'bump key', or impossible to do that too even...where, a conversation with your Local Locksmith would be fruitful to decide what one to go with.


Disused Commercial Steel Door and Jamb sets are often available when older Government, Institutional or Commercial Buildings are being re-Modeled or are to be torn down, and in that context can be had very reasonably ( or for free sometimes, or for a Twelve Pack, cheerfully delivered into your waiting Pick Up Truck Bed.).

Otherwise, if bought new, they tend to be quite expensive.


Strong and secure Doors are one thing, and, vulnerable or reasonably secure Windows are another of course!

And on and on...and on...


But, I like strong Doors, and, Steel Doors, and, for them to open "outward" from Steel Jambs.

 

[StrawHat]

Good doors are nice to have but most buildings are merely siding over studs with drywall interiors. You can kick your way through a wall. Even brick homes are merely a one brick skin over the outside of a wall. A secure house needs a total redesign from the ground up.

 

[fallout mike]

Like oyeboton said about everything. The only drawback is that someone could put a bar or use some method to barricade the door so that you yourself could not push the door outward.

 

[fallout mike]

What strawhat said too. Though that is very rare I have seen it happen. Once I put motion detectors in a customers attic bc someone used a sawzall and came in through their roof and just kicked a hole on the drywall ceiling and dropped in. I also have put security in one persons house that was broken into by them coming through a wall. But let me add that both of these were wealthy people and the rooms they went into were the rooms where the loot that they wanted was in. It was relatives!! They knew exactly what they wanted and where it was.

 

[45Fan]

Doors are not that hard to reenforce to be more resistant to break in, and in the situating that is described by the OP, good construction practices and sturdy wall framing would keep even the most determined criminal from just knocking the door down and strolling in. StrawHat is on the right track, doors are very commonly one of the more resistant places to breach exterior walls. Windows, wall framing in some houses, garage doors, even crawl space accesses that go outside of a house are sometimes easier to breach ways into a house.

My advice for someone that is very concerned with assault ninjas or "po-po" kicking their door in would be to change their lifestyle as to not attract that sort of attention, and move to a better neighborhood.

AO and OP have as much to do with security as anything. Just look at Bin Ladin, he moved to a quiet neighborhood, and it took ten years before someone found him to come kick his door in

 

[Fred Fuller]

The only drawback is that someone could put a bar or use some method to barricade the door so that you yourself could not push the door outward

In some areas and under some circumstances, nature can do that as well. This recent photo from Tuscaloosa, Al is one such instance. Major blizzards, hurricanes, straight line winds, microbursts etc. can do the same.

lpl
====

 

[2WheelsGood]

not quite, in commercial buildings all doors leading to an exit have to open outward in case of a fire or emergency, that way in the blinding smoke you can walk up to a door, try to open it, and if you cant open it away fromy you know to go a different way

Actually, you're wrong too. True it's because of fire safety, but not for the reason you state. It's because when panic ensues, and a mob of people run up to a door and push into it, you can't get it open if it opens to the inside. Many people have died by being trapped by doors that open to the inside, and for that reason it's now part of the fire/building code.

 

[WardenWolf]

My engineer grandfather made his own "secure" hinges. He installed a pin that went from the door, through the hinge plate on the door side, and through a hole in the hinge plate on the frame side. When the door was closed, this pin extended from the door directly into the frame, making it damn near impossible to remove the door if the pins were removed. The other side was also deadbolted, of course.

 

[Tirod]

My advice for someone that is very concerned with assault ninjas or "po-po" kicking their door in would be to change their lifestyle as to not attract that sort of attention, and move to a better neighborhood.

AO and OP have as much to do with security as anything. Just look at Bin Ladin, he moved to a quiet neighborhood, and it took ten years before someone found him to come kick his door in

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^

And armor plating the door opening totally ignores the fragile glass window often set right next to it.

The point with commercial door swing is that Fire/Life Safety in the Code requires them to swing out, and as said, it takes a lot more to secure them. Captured hinge pins, interlocking hinge leafs, metal construction, double dead bolts (allowed only in some rare circumstances,) latch protectors, and heavy duty lock guards were big sellers in my eight years selling commercial hardware.

Bunkerizing the home doesn't help. If things are that bad, move out. Nobody is making you stay, what cost peace and quiet? People who won't change their circumstances actually fear change more than danger.

Not bragging, but 22 years Infantry/MP, and eight years supplying the commercial building business, there's very few buildings that can't be entered. And those were designed to house inmates long term. Do you want to be a prisoner in your own home?

I live in MO, we've had two tornadoes, two ice storms, multiple 6" rains, and a 19" snowfall in the last 9 years. Keeping a roof on my house, and keeping it warm and dry are where I put my effort. I often leave the house unlocked, no one home. That's why I find it paranoid to see people setting the alarm on their car remote stepping into my store. This metro has it's problems, most of it is imaginary and steeped in victimization - not actual crime.

Real home invasions are dealer vs dealer, or two males fighting over a woman - and they aren't all that good looking.

 

[2WheelsGood]

If things are that bad, move out. Nobody is making you stay, what cost peace and quiet? People who won't change their circumstances actually fear change more than danger.

I think your advice is highly misplaced. First, there is no place to live that's so safe that a fortified home isn't a good idea. Jennifer Hawke-Petit is dead proof that there are no perfectly safe neighborhoods. Second, some people can't afford to live in a "safe" (whatever that means) neighborhood. They still have a right to their security and peace of mind.

 

[ForumSurfer]

A determined thief will get into anything. I once saw a tool one had made that he left behind. It was a scissor jack from a car with two plates welded on rather creatively. They wedged them into the door jamb (with a sledge hammer). It was simply a matter of cranking on it at that point. There was also one of those steel overlays that covered the door jamb when closed. My guess is that a pry bar took care of that or they wedged the jack device in there, also.

You can bulletproof it if you want, but someone can get in if they are determined. I'm a firm believer in reason best effort and multiple security measures.

 

[fallout mike]

I'm about to build a house out in the sticks and have been debating the doors from a security standpoint. I'm thinking about the steel swingout but having an emergency exit maybe going under the house for the reasons lee lapin just brought up.

 

[ghostwriter]

Outstanding replies, and they all make me think about the options. I DO NOT have a problem with where I live, in fact I've lived in this same house for over 49 years now and never had an issue with anyone wanting in that wasn't suppose to come in. I was just thinking...and trying to see in my minds' eye what kind of hurdles would be in place to jump over to secure a door from battering ram breaching.
I live in the country and leave things open for the most part, because like was said earlier, if they want in...they're coming in...window, wall, whatever. I'm fortunate that my shop isn't attached to the house and the nearest way in thru the attic is about 9' off the ground. Ladder access maybe, and then they have to deal with the insulation... which I've seen stop a grown man on a construction site. LOL
I hate to crawl around in the attic as well. So...
The pin thru the door and hinge like a bank vault would be easy to do, quick to turn from inside and easy to handle by all, kids included.
I saw a nice new construction house in Arizona where the owner built in the side of a hill mostly underground, it was awesome, and cool too. Never got over about 65-70 inside even in summer. It was built with one of those commercial doors you mentioned above. Pretty massive but certainly not bulletproof.
Thank everyone for your replies.

And the part about changing my lifestyle because I don't want a run in with the PO-PO, is B.S. I have a CCW and you don't necessirily get one of those with a record of illegal activites that attract the attention of the police, BUT, there's been more than a few instances of the police having the wrong house when they decide to do a no-warrent kick the door in entry. The reasons for that are as varied as there is laws. So, I don't have an issue, I merely used that as a visual suggestion to fortify the door thing.

db

 

[ProShooter]

Consider this twist...

When you use a public restroom (let's assume to urinate), what do you use? A urinal?

Not me. To easy to have someone come up behind you and do who knows what. A regular stall? Nope, not me again. I'm a fairly big guy. I hate that the doors open inward and I'm often pressed up against the bowl. No fighting room.

When I was in LE, I used to teach recruits that they should use the handicapped stall. More room to manuever, doors open outward, etc....

Think about it.

 

[MachIVshooter]

When you use a public restroom (let's assume to urinate), what do you use? A urinal? Not me.To easy to have someone come up behind you and do who knows what

I'm gonna leave this one alone, except to say that this is more a case for situational awareness, whereas the thread is about security and being able to lower your guard and relax a bit while in your own home.

Can't say I've ever really worried about being attacked at a urinal, either. I guess I figure the BG doesn't wanna be peed on.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

If you have an entry hallway, and are going to go through the effort of hanging a door, put a steel gate or solid door inside the hallway.

A burglar is going to have a real bad night once he kicks in your front door - wakes you up and gives you the opportunity and (probably) legal justification to open up on him as he is trying to kick down the second door- re-watch lock stock and two smoking barrels for a demonstration of this technique.

Also, should you answer the door and a policeman misunderstands your denial of consent to search your house. He cannot do so without kicking down the second security door and giving you the evidence you need at a suppression hearing, or for a 1983 claim.

 

[Vin]

I'm no security expert, but after a few break-ins in my neighborhood I've been reading and watching videos on youtube. When I went to Home Depot they were telling me to get a storm door, but when I went online and did some research, many sites were advocating using Security Plates that wrap around the door lock and suggested spending more energy reinforcing the door frame. For windows you can buy clear ballistic window film.

 

[hso]

The commercial door question has been addressed as a life safety code requirement.

Residential doors open in for convenience getting out of bad weather and to keep the doors from becoming blocked by debris.

Securing a door is relatively easy. Long throw deadbolts into a security striker will help. Secure the flimsy doorjamb and hinges to the double framing with long deck screws. Use a security plate to protect the lock or use commercial steel exterior doors. Add an apartment floor bar and you will have done about all you can do short of putting a jail cell door in place.

 

[ProShooter]

I'm gonna leave this one alone, except to say that this is more a case for situational awareness, whereas the thread is about security and being able to lower your guard and relax a bit while in your own home.

Ah but see, the concept is the same. Being secure in a place where you would expect to be able to let your guard down. Both cases deal with situational awareness. The OP talks about doors that open inward and how easily they can be accessed by evil-doers. The same concepts are in place - understanding how construction plays into your situational awareness and ability to respond to an attack in your "secure location".

 

[Remo223]

doors open inwards because that way the hinges are inside. If they opened outwards, locks would be a waste of time since you could just take the hinges off.

 

[Shadow 7D]

OK
Let look holistically at this
if they want in , they will get in
SO>>>
beefed up door, what about window, all them, other doors, garage
How thick is you siding.

Really I have yet to meet the house that I couldn't just toss a small bolder or 2x4 and just bust out (of the frame if needed) a window if the door was too hard. People have posted pics of the results of burglaries where a chain wrapped was around a safe and tore it out of the house, through the wall.

 

[Loosedhorse]

+1 Remo223

One of the reasons that home doors open in is the hinges. For the door to open out the hinges would usually have to be located outside. That may present its own security problem.

Of course, you could have double doors, one opening in and one out--that'll slow them down.