Doors that open out

[William Lee]

I was just thinking the other day, when my buddy got locked out of his apartment, about why most doors on dwellings open inwardly. I suppose it's more inviting this way, but there are a few tactical disadvantages as well. For starters, the door rests against the frame in such a way that it is easier to kick down from the outside than it is from the inside. This is a clear problem for two reasons: 1) badguys can kick down your door, and 2) you can't kick open your door if the lock is broken and there's a fire. I know that a traditional door reversed would leave the hinge assembly exposed to the outside, but there must be a different way of making this work. Anyone consider this problem before? It can't just be me.

 

[joshk-k]

Having the hinges exposed to the inside is a good security precaution, and having the ability to barricade the door from the inside is also a good thing.

 

[Jeff White]

Doors that open out are pretty easy to breach. Many mobile homes have back doors that open out and they pop right open with a halligen tool or prybar.

As was mentioned before, a door that opens in can be barricaded and secured by other locking devices besides the bolt of the lock. A door that opens out even if the hinges are welded is still just held in by the hinge screws and lock's bolt. You would have to have a locking system with multiple bolts like a safeor vault door for it to be secure.

 

[45Fan]

The security of the door really depends on quite a bit, but the swing of the door isnt really that imortant. What the door is made of is the primary factor, followed by the jamb, and the hardware installed in the door. Its not really any one part, but the proper combination of pieces, installed in a proper fashion, that determines the doors resistance to atack/burglury.

 

[CTPhil]

If an exterior door opens out, someone can easily hide behind it.

 

[buy guns]

I supervise evictions for my job and 80% of the time the people have already left which means the eviction crew has to break into an empty house (of course they don't actually break the door down). These guys aren't locksmiths; they are probably just as talented as your average burglar.

The first thing they do is stick a big flathead screwdriver in the jam and try to pry the lock open. If that doesn't work then they drill out the deadbolt and rip off the door knob with vise grips. Most of the time they have it open within a couple of minutes. What can really slow them down is a heavy duty door frame with a tight tolerance between the frame and door as well as reinforced deadbolts that can take quite awhile to drill through.

I've also worked with actual locksmiths who will change locks on other vacant houses I take possession of for Fannie Mae. These guys will use a lock pick gun and open a deadbolt just as fast as I could with a key. The only thing they can't pick are locks that use non-traditional keys. Then they have to drill which takes high quality bits and a long time.

 

[leadaddict]

Exposing the hinges and the bolt are the main reasons most aren't done that way. While it would make it hard to kick in, it's not worth the trade-offs, IMO.

 

[grumps]

There are hinge systems that hide the hinges for doors that open out. Search hidden or European hinges.

 

[BBQLS1]

IMO, kicking a door down from the inside with the hinges on the outside would be way easier than with the hinges on the inside. Harder for firemen coming in easier for you going out (not that you would need it since you should have the key to the dead bolt, hopefully).

If a door opens out, someone can hide behind it (if it's not glass), but you can open it all the way and detect that I suppose.

The big problem is one can lift the hinge pins pretty or open the door with a credit card/pocket knife pretty easy. I have a back door like this and I have broken into it before... took less than a minute. I'd thought about changing it, but it would take up living room space if I changed it the other way. My way around it is the fact I keep an alarm on it. If it opens, I'll hear the chime.... if the alarm is set, it'll wake me up better than the breaking glass... if that wasn't the case, I'd change it.

 

[William Lee]

Thanks for the replies. I had thought briefly about the possibility of someone hiding behind it, and yes, I am sensitive to the fact that a badly made door will easily be breached no matter what the opening system. However, a nice heavy door with hidden hinges that opens outwardly would be what I would prefer on my home.

 

[9mmepiphany]

However, a nice heavy door with hidden hinges that opens outwardly would be what I would prefer on my home.

Then the question would be, what do you do when they barricade the door from the outside, when you are inside, and they set the house on fire

 

[Fred Fuller]

The water table here is so high, things like basements, root cellars and storm shelters below grade aren't possible. But we have more than our share of storms, from thunderstorms up to serious hurricanes. So I set up a shipping container as a shared duty temperature controlled storage area, workshop and storm shelter. It's tied down with steel strapping on an 18" bed of crushed rock. The end doors were left 'as is' and when we insulated and trimmed out the inside, we installed a set of French doors in that end with clearance for the insulation installed on the inside of the steel doors. Open the 'outside' steel doors, and the workshop has natural light and a view of the outdoors.

The main entry is a commercial steel door set in a fabricated steel frame and welded into the side of the container. It opens inward. Why? In the event of a storm, it could be that debris gets piled against the outside of the door. If that happens, we need to be able to get out... and if the door opened outward, we couldn't escape without help.

One more thing to think about...

lpl

 

[joshk-k]

Off topic, but I'd love to see a pic of your container, Lee.

Josh

 

[jbh13]

Has anyone actually kicked a door down? Yes with wood frame and hollow door, no problem. Metal frame and solid door not likely. Also inward or outward opening, there are slide bolts available to install on your door to reinforce higher or lower than your deadbolt to give added protection.

 

[killchain]

Has anyone actually kicked a door down? Yes with wood frame and hollow door, no problem. Metal frame and solid door not likely. Also inward or outward opening, there are slide bolts available to install on your door to reinforce higher or lower than your deadbolt to give added protection.

I've kicked down quite a few doors. All in a legal standpoint, of course.

The weakest part of the door is usually where the dead bolt is. Why? because the dead bolt may be reinforced metal, but usually the bolt seats in average wood in an average doorframe. This goes for door knobs and handles too... really, the only thing holding the doors shut in most cases is two pieces of steel in softer wood. Whether it's a wooden or steel door doesn't matter if the frame is weak.

So, my advice to everyone is... keep your doors swinging inward. Reinforce the frame of your door. And get a big protective dog, or two!

 

[Encoreman]

I just happened to see a show the other day on the subject of doors and frames and how to make them more burglar proof. 1st is to use a steel door with no windows or very small and high in the door windows. Next you basically have to build a stronger door frame by sandwiching steel strips into the sides of the frame, use 4 inch screws to mount the frame and hinges thru the frame, use high quality locks with longer deadbolts that protrude thru the steel in the frame. They had before and after kicks to the door and it was a big difference.

 

[stan rose]

If an entry door were to open out you could easily be blocked in by high snow, downed trees, or a high water table. If the door opens in, then even in the worst of natural disasters, you can open the door and start clearing the obsticle. Even as little as a foot of snow up against a door can make it almost impossible for most people to open.

 

[Davey Wavey]

I would imagine an exterior door that opens toward the outside would also be incredibly inconvenient. I'd have to have to carry bags of groceries or other stuff into my house using a door that opens towards me. Not fun.

I have a feeling exterior doors open in rather than out because of convenience as opposed to security.

 

[Dulvarian]

I would have to guess that from an engineering standpoint, simply having a solid door and putting vertical deadbolts in the top and bottom of the door-frame would add a lot. I have considered doing that when I change out the doors. But then I start looking at the windows...

If you really want solid, you would need to go with all metal, and a set of dogs. Like this one. But if you really need something like that, I suggest that you move. I will say though, I've seen a lot of them in the Navy, and I'm pretty sure you would be hard pressed to find a wall on an existing house that would be able to withstand the punishment that a ballistic water-tight hatch could withstand.