Do's and don'ts of running a gunshop?

[Correia]

More:

Service is an absolute. If anybody that works for me is ever rude to a customer, I will bludgeon that employee for your viewing enjoyment.

At FBMG, we don't have a place for old duffers to sit around and talk politics or tell lies about guns. Guys like that scare away regular people. We're right down the street from NG headquarters, and our place is kind of a hang out now for the Guard, and most of our ownership is Army SF, so we don't really have a problem with typical gunshop posers. Posers are quickly killed and eaten.

 

[John G]

As a saleperson, I'm looking to see what you might be interested in.

Ask me. My hearing is good and I speak perfect english.

If you own 6 1911's, maybe you want to look at 1911's and I can tell you about this new fancy Les Baer I just got in, or whatever. It's not unreasable.

It is rude. If I want the seller to know what guns I own, I will tell him. If he asks me, we might have a conversation about what I like and what he recommends. He should not just help himself.

 

[waterhouse]

If you bring me a used gun that you want to trade, and it cost you $1000 new. Don't get insulted when I offer you $600 for it. Why?

That $1000 gun costs me (at dealer) $800. I can sell a new one for $1000. If you think you are going to get $800 for your used gun, you are not, because that is what I can get a new one for. Do not be insulted.

This is an excellent point, and while some people may understand it there are clearly many people who don't. I get emails all the time from someone with pictures of a gun they would like to trade. I respond and let them know what the trade in value is. I am always careful to include the fact that their gun is probably worth more to someone else than it is to me, since I can get new ones at dealer cost, and that they would probably do better selling their gun privately.

Even after explaining this, you should see some of the responses I get back. Let's just say that a lot of people greatly overestimate the trade in value of their guns and get offended when you give them a number.

As for my biggest gripe about gun shops: transfer costs. I got my FFL mainly out of spite, because I couldn't find a dealer who would transfer a gun for under $30. I don't know what they should cost, but I know about how much time it takes to address an envelope/send a fax, log a gun in and out, and fill out the NICS online form. The total time of work put into a transfer is under 10 minutes, and the only cost to the dealer is time. At $30 that comes out to $180 an hour.

Articap, the first thing I do when a box gets here is open it up and log it in. It doesn't matter if your name is on the box. If the gun is damaged when I open the package, I will call you and let you know about it. I won't charge you for the transfer, and the rest is up to you and the seller, but you can bet that when the box gets here I will open it up and log it in, first thing.

I will also add: Just like any business in America, the way that a gun store is run is up to the ownership. If they could make more money being open on a Sunday and choose not to be, that is their decision. If they can eat and afford the things they want, it was an OK decision. If they go out of business and starve and get kicked out of their home it was a bad decision, but it was still their decision.

 

[albanian]

I am starting to see why it is so hard to run a gunshop. Everyone wants different things from a gunshop. It is not that the public expects everything, it is that half expect some things and the other half expect other things.

I don't care about warrenty on used guns. I have never taken a gun that didn't work back to a gunshop. I have sent new guns back to the factory when I have bought them at a gunshop because I understand that is who is going to fix it. I have bought used guns that didn't work and I consider that part of the risk of buying used. You save money because there is going to be some wear and tear and there may even be a problem. If you were promised a perfect used gun, why buy a new one?

There are certain things I really care about and some things I don't. I am sure some people have the opposite view from me and a gunstore that seems perfect to me may not meet their needs.

One thing is true, there are certain things that EVERY gunshop NEEDS. You have to be customer oriented. This is the rarest thing to find in a gunshop and strangly it is the thing that costs nothing. A smile and a bit of light conversation makes the customer feel at ease and is free. I'm sure we have all walked into a gunshop at least once and were made to feel unwelcome and uneasy. That should never happen.

The things that make me feel uneasy are:
1. The guy behind the counter not saying anything to me and just looking at me.

2. A bunch of yahoos yapping and not buying. These guys are not there to do business so they should not be there during business hours. I have been to shops when there were so many of these fools that I was not able to get close enough to the counter to see any of the handguns in the case. I had money and I was looking to buy but not from that shop.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

I'm always astonished by the shops that only have business hours of something like M-Th, 10am-4pm.

I guess they don't want to sell guns to anyone who works for a living?

That, and there's also a lot that seem to be of the "inner city barbershop" model. It's not a place of business, it's a place where a bunch of retired guys (who are there every day) sit around and BS. The problem is that when you come in as a customer, you feel like you've wandered into someone's living room, and tend to wander right back out again. I do, at least.

That, and I'd also add that ridiculously marked up guns, though they might occasionally catch a sucker, are a complete turnoff to the educated buyer and tend to make them think the owner is a less-than-ethical shyster.

Well said. Couldn't have said it better myself. Some gunshops around here rape on some firearms, but are good on others. For example, 'assault rifles' might be overpriced by 50% or more, but Glocks are competitive. That's "some" of them. Most shops rape on every firearm. I don't expect these gunshops to be able to compete with the kitchen table style dealers that are mostly internet based, but have some small, inexpensive store front out in the middle of no where; however, being hundreds of dollars overprices is simply not fair.


I get turned off real quick when I go into a shop and everything is way expensive. It makes me think the dealer either A] can't do business with prices any cheaper B] does business by selling to suckers all day long.


I usually just use these shops to check out the firearms in person that I intend on buying online. Hey, if they had competitive prices, I'd buy from them and not deal with the transfer hassle. Even if they were a little bit more expensive than the FFL fees and all that (plus I have to pay tax), I'd still buy local. It's just that they're way, way out of line. I do buy little things from them, like gun oil or small stuff that isn't worth buying from Midway. I usually wait and build up an order for Midway.


Sorry, but $489 WASR's aren't my thing. Neither are $2,499 Colt 6520's....

 

[pete f]

I have been on both sides of the counter,

First point, In small shops, when a customer walks up to the counter, PUT OUT THE DARN CIGARETTE!!!!. I hate walking up to a counter and the first thing I get a face full of smoke. There is one Gun shop I regularly visit as he often has wonderful deals on out of season stuff. The guy is always puffing on a heater and usually right in front of Kegs of Bullseye and 231.

Re: the Sportsmans Warehouse braggart. I see you have met Meach, formerly of gander and galyans. Did you know he was once going to be the head of DNR hunting? and was a special forces trainer. and twice used the F bomb in front of my 8 yo niece in the store. The second time I demanded and got the store manager to send him home for the day.

Re: handling guns, Just like offering test drives. We always allowed a 3 day "test drive" (although this was recinded on the days preceding season openers.) and we would try to fix a non functioning weapon.

re: The coffee machine and the "regulars table" I have seen this work and I have seen it fail miserably. It needs to be maintained by the managment, feel free to boot people, and encourage others. We had one guy who was an old time high power shooter and another who was a world class live pidgeon shooter. Both would come in and sit for a spell about afternoon coffee time. New customers would come and if they wanted something that these two gentlemen knew about, we would ask for them to step and add something to the conversation.

Re: hours. Now I do know two places that run solely for the pleasure of the owners, and they have the right to be open from 12 -5 some weekdays. but everyone else? have at least some saturday hours, and one night a week of at least 8 PM hours. YOU ARE IN RETAIL, the shoe store stays open past 5 pm so should you. If you need two days off then close monday and sunday.

Transfer fees. 20 bucks TOPS, although we did for a while have a % fee, 2% OR 20 bucks which ever was greater. Which we instituted for some of the higher value guns we were dealing with, and which required more effort in dealing with.

Shipping fees, We had Flat rates for handling, but shipping was what we paid. The handling had a list of options. your original factory box, our labels etc, $x. you need a box, we pack it up, label and ship $X+ etc.
It was all listed and we felt fair based on what it took to **** a gun. Make a sign with the cost of shipping to the major manufacturers. that is, REmington shotgun to factory, $x.xx colt handgun to factory, $XX.XX listing why handguns were so much more, or have a hand out, cuts down on the ornry customers.

Stock some stuff we want to see. I know it cost money to find this stuff, but put a few pre 64 70's on shelf, maybe a 86 and a 71. Find a few superposed and maybe some other cool shotties. stock a box of the semi obscure ammo. Walmart carries 30-06, but you can carry 7.65 argentine. and 358 win. and 284. that is what we want to see.

As far as the bulk price stuff, that is up to you, If you can handle surplus ammo, then list the prices for the stuff on a white board and keep it up to date. show the price shipped to my hands.

If you do not pay for the catalogs, then do not act like it is costing you cash money to hand them out. particularly to kids,

Tolerate kids, but be quick to stop posing. but do it nicely

Avoid political talk, Keep the Rush show on low hum. Do not advocate for the killing of those who need killing and the hanging of those who need hanging.

And this from the hardest learned lessons. Believe that all customers have the ability to understand and comprehend comples sentences until they prove they cannot. In other words, do not underestimate the intelligence of the customer.

 

[Diomed]

6. So you won't help me out with the paperwork to legally import a gun from another country because you ran into red tape problems before and you will never attempt to try it again?

In all fairness, importation is not like doing an FFL transfer. It's specialized work, and the shop needs to have a specialist who knows the process, otherwise, success is just pure dumb luck, and there ain't much of that. None of the shops around me does imports - if I want to do it in-state I have to drive three hours plus to the one shop I know knows how to do it.

Best bet is to go to a shop who knows what they're doing. The cheapest rate I've ever heard is $75/piece, before domestic FFL fees. (LeRoy's Big Valley Gunworks, to be specific.) Most are $150 and up.

 

[ozarkhillbilly]

As said before used guns are where the money is at, but that’s with used anything. The reason car dealerships separate used from new cars is to keep used buyers from easily deciding they can afford new.

Shops should be prepared to stand behind any gun they sell, you sell me a lemon and do not stand behind it and I wont be back weather I bought it new or used. Besides good business practice in most states its the law, I have a legal expectation that whatever I buy to work when I buy it unless told beforehand that it is sold as is and then in most states you still have a set time period to take it back. As far as a new gun that does not work I will also take it back to the dealer, its his problem to get it fixed not mine he sold it not working so it is legally his job to get it fixed or exchange it. Now if a gun does work when sold and it breaks on me then it is up to me to get the factory to fix.

One other practice that I have seen occasionally is for gun shops to want to charge a 3% fee on credit card sales.
1. If you, the shop can not afford the 3% credit fee then do not accept credit cards.
2. If you do not accept credit cards you are to striped to be in business and will not be for very long.
3. If you charge a fee for using credit cards you are not a very ethical shop because you signed a credit card contract stating that you would not charge a fee. Also if anyone ever calls the credit card company to complain you will be back charged that fee and could loose your ability to accept credit cards.

 

[ozarkhillbilly]

I have been in good and bad shops I go back to the good shops and never set foot back in the bad ones, but gun shops are just like any other business they are in business to make money and as much as they can. That’s ok it's what they are suppose to do, but like most small business most fail in the first couple of years. Unfortunately most small business fail because the owners do not know how to run a business and its not just limited to gun shops.

People should never get mad about what any shop charges or offers them on their trade, if you don't like it then do not do business with them. Most people have know idea what it takes to keep a business running they can not see the big picture. However once again most gun shops do not see the big picture either, don't get mad if people do not want to pay your prices, don't get mad because people want to order a gun and just use you for the transfer because they can get it cheaper elsewhere, just do it and make $20 or $30 or don't and let the customer go elsewhere and pay someone else.

Shops should do what it takes to stay in business and that can very from place to place but know your market place.

 

[michael_aos]

You guys need to come into my place sometime. I think we do a pretty good job.

Just happened to wind up in the motel next to your shop. Neat place. Not nearly the inventory I'm used to seeing in the gunshop near my house, but good prices and you guy were very personable. Seemed like you guys had the kind of stuff I would buy.

My wife loves that Molan Labe hat!

Mike

 

[TonyRumore]

There is a gun shop here in Oklahoma that has signs posted in front of the shop "EMPLOYEE PARKING ONLY".

The customer parking is down the alley and behind the building.

***?

 

[qajaq59]

And certainly don't

Judge a customer by what he happens to have on. I have a friend that is literally a millionaire, but he likes to work on his antique cars and dresses accordingly. One day, after he'd worked on one of his cars, he stopped in to buy a very expensive rifle. The idiot clerk said, "You can't afford that, we have some cheaper ones." He walked out and bought the rifle somewhere else. How's that for a dumb clerk?

 

[Correia]

Thanks Michael. Yes, we don't have tons of stuff yet. But we've only been open four months, and we've about tripled our inventory in that time. Just wait until we get the range open.

Don't Tread On Me, on pricing, why they have high on some, and low on others. Here is another peak behind the curtain. Most dealers order from wholesalers (RSR, Davidsons) the advantage of that is that you can get single guns. However, they are going to cost more (middleman). Now if I want to go dealer direct, I'm going to get better prices, however I have to order a bunch at one time. The amount depends on the dealer, but for some companies, it can be thousands to tens of thousands of dollars.

So oftentimes when you see some guns for cheap, but others for a lot, it is because they are dealer direct for the cheap ones, but wholesalers for the others. If you are a small business, sadly it is very difficult to go dealer direct, and you are forced to order one and two at a time because you don't have an extra $10K laying around. (per company you want to stock!)

We don't charge extra for credit cards, but I can understand the shops that do. They are often only getting 10% markup on a gun. Take 3% CC on that, and now they are only getting 7%! Ouch. But we absorb the cost, because of convenience to the customer.

qajaq59, I know what you mean. I grew up on a dairy farm. I'm used to millionaries that literally smell like cow poop.

On transfers, it isn't always as easy as some of you guys think. Yes, a transfer that works, between two knowledgable parties is awesome, and only takes a few minutes of my time. However, I can't count the number of times you get a transfer, where I have to make fifty phone calls, answer twenty e-mails, and hold everybodies hand. I've had transfers where I've spent HOURS of my time trying to get everybody happy. Why? Because I'm a sucker.

 

[albanian]

"6. So you won't help me out with the paperwork to legally import a gun from another country because you ran into red tape problems before and you will never attempt to try it again? "

That is something I can't blaim on the gunstore owners. That is not part of their normal business and they shouldn't be expected to do this for you. This is a case of the customer expecting way too much and getting bent out of shape when he is not given what he wants. There are always going to be unhappy customers, that is part of doing business. If you have to make someone unhappy, make the guy that expects the moon to be unhappy rather than the guy that just wants to come in and be treated like a paying customer and buy something.

I have learned long ago, if you go way out of your way and spend a lot of time to make someone who expects too much happy, you ignore other customers and duties. These people are almost never satisfied anyway and even if you spend 20 hrs trying to work out the paperwork and talking on the phone with importers, they won't be happy. Forget these people unless you know you have the time and the info to do what they want. I am not saying don't go out of your way to help out a customer, I am just saying you don't have to try and please everyone. It is a gunshop not an international importer/exporter. If you want a gun imported, you do the leg work and find the right people to do this kind of thing. Expect to pay them for their time as well. Nobody should have to work for free, not even gunstore owners.

 

[TonyRumore]

Correia is spot on the money with "transfer" problems. Sure, some only take 10 minutes, but many others turn into a complete goat rope that burn hours of your time. In the custom gun building business, if my hands are not cutting metal, I'm not making any money. You absolutely can not imagine all the headaches caused by what should be simple transfers.

It's just not worth the hassle to me, so I quit doing them.

 

[BlkHawk73]

RE: 1 - Hmmm, all other stores seem to have planty of customers during the regular business hours of the day. You cannot really expect gun shops to be open from sun-up to late at night. These people have lives too. Not everyone works a M-F 9 -5 job. Should they just invest in do-doz and stay open 24/7? Luckily the one I frequents is open to either 6PM or 7PM depending on the season. He does however open later than the regualr stores do.

RE: 2 - There's some that just should not be interacting with the public. They may not be rude/impolite on purpose but rather just be that way and thier tone of voice suggests otherwise. I know some that even when really happy have a voice tone that one would think otherwise.

RE: 3 - can't blame them for not neccessarily wanting to wheel/deal. I've known some shops that just flat refused to deal in any of the low quality firearms (Jennings, Lorcin, Hi-point, etc). Some customers would have one and think it's a great gun and want to trade it off. If it's so good of a gun, why get rid of it? Also, they've got to look at any potential trade-ins as if there is a local market for it and how long they'll have it sittng on thier shelf. Unwanted overhead.

RE: 4 - Agree with the ammo issue but have never run into it myself.

RE: 5 - What is lots to one is a few to another and costs the shop owner alot in inventory, some of which may sit for a long time. Unwanted overhead. hey'll stock what thier local market can bare. You don't see your local Dodge dealer with a Viper in every color or the Chevy dealer with a 'Vette in each model. Unneccessary overhead.

RE: 6 - Common sence!

 

[WayneConrad]

The #1 reason there are gun stores I don't go to: The sign in the front requiring me to disarm before entering.

Every other annoyance is minor. That one thing will make me turn around and go elsewhere.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

I stopped off at the bait and tackle place on Route 13 (DE) today. This one got me.

I was looking for #10 percussion caps. I just picked up a new NAA black powder revolver - That's a bit off topic. Anyway, sales drone told me it would take #11's. Surprise! It didn't.

So, yeah.

Miller's was closed. They close at 4 on Saturday for some godawful reason. Targetmaster didn't have #10's. Just one tin of 11's. So I go into this place that is primarly a bait and tackle shop (the name escapes me, but they have "GUNS" spelled out in big red letters with the shingles on their roof). The place is mostly fishing, but they have a few guns and some ammo over in one corner. I admit that it's a long shot, and ask if they have #10 caps.

Yes, yes they do. The guy behind the counter rummages around in the reloading stuff near the register and comes up with three tins.

After test fitting one (the action cycles! huzzah!) I mention that I've been running myself ragged trying to find caps for this gun.

"That's because you didn't come here first," the guy says.

The things aren't priced, so he thumbs through the Ellet Brother's catalog on the counter until he finds a suitable MSRP. I pay and thank him, and his reply?

"I get that a lot. Mostly from the ladies."

So yeah. Don't act like that. At least he kept his pants on.

 

[Starter52]

Re: Hours of business.

We don't have a Gander Mountain store around here yet, but I'm told they do a lot of firearms business on weekends (expecially Sunday) when they're the only gun shop open.

Too many shops around here close at 3 PM Saturday and don't reopen until the next Tuesday.

 

[albanian]

"The things aren't priced, so he thumbs through the Ellet Brother's catalog on the counter until he finds a suitable MSRP. I pay and thank him, and his reply?

"I get that a lot. Mostly from the ladies."

So yeah. Don't act like that. At least he kept his pants on."

I am not sure what to make of this post. Was he the good guy or the bad guy? Why wouldn't he keep his pants on? I think there is something about this story that you are not telling us.

 

[hotpig]

I got it now. In order to run the best shop possible I just need to focus on a few things.

I need to hire customer orientated employees with verifiable "expert" knowledge in all fire arms, reloading, accessories, and State and Federal laws.

I need to be open 24/7

I need to stock every firearm that has been and is currently produced.

I need to sell these guns at or below whole sale.

I need to give trade in value at or above the whole sale cost of new guns.

I have to stock all calibers and brands of ammo and shooting accessories, and sell them at cost.

I need to spend the big bucks on a importers license in case a customer wants something that can not be found in the US.

 

[deadin]

That's the idea! You got a problem with it?


Dean

 

[Dmack_901]

One other practice that I have seen occasionally is for gun shops to want to charge a 3% fee on credit card sales.
1. If you, the shop can not afford the 3% credit fee then do not accept credit cards.
2. If you do not accept credit cards you are to striped to be in business and will not be for very long.
3. If you charge a fee for using credit cards you are not a very ethical shop because you signed a credit card contract stating that you would not charge a fee. Also if anyone ever calls the credit card company to complain you will be back charged that fee and could loose your ability to accept credit cards.

To compensate for the credit-card fee, but come across nicer, I've heard of places giving a discount to cash sales.

I know a few gas-stations will knock off 5 cents a gallon when paying cash(but only if you mention it).

 

[hotpig]

Credit card fees can be high. I have a internet credit card processing connection since my business is over the net or phone. I pay 70.00 per month for the service. .30 per transaction plus 3.5% If I do a refund it is .30 plus 3.5% so I do not do my charges until I ship.

I do not charge a credit card fee and often lose business to companies that advertise a cheaper price but charge higher shipping and for credit cards. Some people are too lazy to do the math.

 

[Quaamik]

got it now. In order to run the best shop possible I just need to focus on a few things.

I need to hire customer orientated employees with verifiable "expert" knowledge in all fire arms, reloading, accessories, and State and Federal laws.

I need to be open 24/7

I need to stock every firearm that has been and is currently produced.

I need to sell these guns at or below whole sale.

I need to give trade in value at or above the whole sale cost of new guns.

I have to stock all calibers and brands of ammo and shooting accessories, and sell them at cost.

Not at all:
- It's not that the empolyees have to be experts, just hat they need to know what it is they DON'T know, and not pretend that they know things they don't.
- Nobody say's every store should be open 24/7, but at least one late night or a weedend day would be nice. Both would be preferable, especially for those of us who work 6 days a week.
- No, not every firearm. But more than the 2 rifles, 2 shotguns and 2 pistols that some stores stock. That is if you want a viable brick and mortar business. If you established a storefront shop just to keep your FFL, then you had better hope you have the money to keep it operating. If you want to run your store as a hobby, then put a sign advertising that you do transfeers or "will order" right in the window.
- Not below wholesale. Below MSRP would be nice, but I'm not even insisting on that. But 20% over MSRP? Gimme a break.
- It's your money. Give a price for a trade in so that you can make money on it. But be honest and tell the person that you have to make a profit re-selling it. And if you don't want it, tell them why (no customer interest, too much current stock). DO NOT put a sign out saying that you don't carry / trade / buy "Assault Rifles".
- It's not that you need to stock all the odd calibers and shooting accessories. You can always lose business instead. Seriously, the small gun shop will NEVER compete in price with WallMart/Miejers or even Gander Mountain on WWW 9mm. You can however keep a box of 7.62x54R or .300 Savage hunting ammo on the shelf. And you could do a LOT worse than to have 5 or 6 choices, in different weights, of popular calibers like .40S&W and .45ACP.

As to the BS / coffee table: It's only place is in a shop that has a range, where I've seen it done well more than I've seen it done poorley. The trick is to make sure the people who hang out there know that it is a business. If they want to BS, fine. Have a cup of coffee while waiting to use the range. BS a little with your buddy. But the first time the people sitting at the table make disparaging comments about a potential customer, whoever is behind the counter should ask them to leave. Don't tolerate bigots, either behind the counter or hanging around the store.

If you have a problem with people hanging around the table making comments that kill sales, the answer is simple: Move the table. If the store is small enough that you can't position it away from the sales counter, it's too small a store to waste the space on a table like that.