tired of getting guns pointed at me in gunshops

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If you say so.........

"Spelling and grammer errors are often a result of fast typing. Trust me, I have a degree in English Literature, a Juris Doctorate, and you can see all of the typing mistakes I make."

Well,you misspelled "grammar" twice in one post, counselor. Such repeated, identical mistakes sound more in ignorance than negligence. :scrutiny:

Asked-for nit-picking aside, I would have to agree that assaulting someone for reckless gun handling where simply exiting would suffice is an extreme and somewhat parlous undertaking. :uhoh:
 
I am not going to name names, but if you are going to nit-pick someone's spelling or grammar, make sure yours is perfect first. I am sure I could look through every post on this subject and find at least one frammar or sp[elling error. See I even made soem in this post.

So let's get back to the topic of behavior when someone sweeps you with an "unloaded" gun. mkay?
 
Lawyers make mistakes

My gosh, we are all lawyers and making grammatical mistakes.

I make many grammatical mistakes, spelling mistakes, diction errors. Sometimes I even make run on sentences. I do this despite 4 college degrees and being admitted to practice in California, Nevada and New York.

If you want to see real illiteracy, go to the streets of Lahore, Pakistan. Watch people engage in the time-honored profession on scribe on the streets. I was there in the 1970s. Otherwise, I accept other people's spelling errors and grammatical errors and focus on the communication.

Now back to reality.

I do not sweep people. I do not accept people sweeping me. If possible, I move out of the way and call a person's attention to the error.

I had a guy in my platoon killed at 4 feet with an empty M14 with a round through the chest and his back blown out. I had an LAPD officer shoot himself immediately in front of me - and he was more versed in safety at that time that I was. I witnessed a boy shoot himself in the leg with a .22 rifle - and I was in the processi of getting out of there because of unsafe handling. I had an Argentinian (maybe :) missepelled) officer discharge an unloaded and purportedly defective 870 at our feet in training. The list goes on.

I have come up with a solution. The next time I am in a gun store and have some one pointing in my direction, I am going to yell "freeze". Then we can address the situation.

Mistakes do happen when people are safety unconscious. How about the medical doctor who shot himself on the draw? It is also one of the reasons that I generally avoid going into gun shops.

When I take a firearm to a gunsmith, I always preface the situation by asking whether he wants to take the firearm out of the container or have me do it. I then remind him to check that it is unloaded when it is handed to him. GEE, I AM ONLY HUMAN. DO YOU KNOW I ONCE PASSED A LOADED FIREARM AND BECAUSE THE LICENSED GUNSMITH CHECKED IT TO MAKE SURE IT WAS UNLOADED AT MY REQUEST, WE FOUND A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER. I can't control other people, only myself.
 
If someone sweeps you, (yes it has happened to me) and you ask them not to do that, most people get the picture. IF you get a response like "duh, it's not loaded" or a blank stare, maybe put it in context for them. Tell them YOU didn't personally check/clear the weapon, someone could've slipped a round into the chamber , etc. (Some of the stories mentioned here like the Walmart rifle preloaded from the factory! :eek: )

If I want to see how a weapon points, it's up at the ceiling or down at the floor. Hard to cover anyone with it that way.

I've seen busy gunshops where the guys working behind the counter can get distracted long enough for some bad apple to load the weapon. Scary!

Personally, I think the 4 Rules should be posted for all to see in gunshops. That would educate newbies and remind everyone else to be safe.


--meathammer
 
Daniel T.
I'm not asking you to believe anything. I'm just stating the events that hapened to me. If you don't believe me fine. Since you are in Austin I'm sure that you have been to the shop where the event happened.
But I have noticed one thing, NONE of you have responded to my questions. Kinda makes you wonder. :rolleyes:
 
The clerk just laughed and told me not to worry, because it wasn't loaded.
Click to expand...

I would have simply said, "Stay here. I'm going over to get your manager, and before this day is out, you will have been fired from your position here. Be sure of it."

I would have summoned the manager, told him of the BLATANT DISREGARD FOR GUN SAFETY EXHIBITED BY HIS GUN SALES STAFF, and insisted that his employment be terminated, particularly since his callous disregard for safety was aggravated by his laughing at my insistence on safe gun handling, and his belittling my concerns.

I would have made sure to get the name, telephone number, address and email address of the district or regional Walmart manager. In my correspondence with him, I would have made sure to ask how he plans to handle the fallout of an accidental ("negligent") shooting WHEN one occurs in his store, as the result of such ignorance and willfull disregard for simple gun safety rules. I'd ask him how many millions he would like to be responsible for Walmart having to pay my estate, should I be shot in his store by a negligent clerk.

I don't know about you, but I think that would get his attention.

-Jeffrey
 
I've seen a lot of people who do not know how to how nor should
be allowed to handle a gun both at the range and in gun stores.

But a prime example of why guns are handled in a certain way was
was demonstrated in a very loud and startling way and a Gun & Knife
Show I was at a few years ago.

It was almost in the middle of the building, I was talking to a friend of
mine as we slowly made our way down the center isle. He was commenting
on how the girl in front of us must use a pant horn to get into her jeans...
and said he'd hit that like the fist of an angry god (perfect timing) when
BOOM :what: the whole place got about 6 inches shorter.

One row over a dealer was showing a customer how smooth the trigger action
was on one of his guns. Luckily the man aimed it down when he "dry fired"
the .45 :eek: and lodged the round into an old metal tool box.
 
cowboybob asked
1. When you were growing up, how many times did your Momma tell you to do something BEFORE she smacked you upside the head??
2. Those of you that were in basic training PRIOR to the military being sissified, how many times were told to do something by your Drill Sgt. before he smacked you in the head ???
3. Did anyone bother asking HOW I took him out ???
Click to expand...

1. Irrelevant. You're not his mama.

2. Irrelevant. You're not his DI, and he didn't sign up to get slapped into shape like you did.

3. Irrelevant. Any measure of physical force is legally an assault. You are no more authorized to pull one hair out of the guy's head than you are to grab a handful. You have no more legal authority to prod him with one finger than you have to punch him with your fist.

***

I don't intend to pile on here, but your plaintive insistence that someone should answer your (plainly rhetorical) questions got to me.

pax
 
I've been swept a few times. Has happened too often that the other person has apologized but then added, "It isn't loaded."

My canned chewing-out which I've given probably a half dozen times now:

"Okay. You think your gun is unloaded. Did anyone else out here know that for sure? Did everyone else check your gun by sight and feel?" ("Ummm, no.")

"So anyone here could have thought you just pointed a loaded gun at them?" ("Ummm, yeah.")

"All right. I want you to remember this: heart attacks are every bit as deadly as bullets. You could have killed someone with that unloaded gun."

Some people are inclined to blow off Rule One violations because they simply cannot imagine being wrong about whether they'd unloaded the gun or not. For such folks, it really is unthinkable that they could make such an error, so they have a hard time internalizing the rule. But they still need to be taught not to sweep other people, and this gives them a reason that doesn't involve them being wrong about the gun's status.

Iow, I don't care how they get there. I just want them to know in their guts that sweeping people is BAD.

pax
 
I have had more guns unintentionally pointed in my direction than I care to count.
I use my forefinger to physically push the weapons away from my midsection, and have had people get angry and walk out because I have done this.
I don't care, if you don't have the good common sense to keep from muzzle sweeping everybody in the store I don't particularly want to sell you a firearm until you have had some better training.
Click to expand...

Glad to read that you have this attitude about it. I feel strongly that yours is the correct position to hold in such a case. :)

-Jeffrey
 
Well said, Pax. I have a friend who collects guns, has some (a lot) of sweet ones. After sweeping me once with a mint Thompson, and picking it up off the floor, he no longer gets a muzzle near me. Other people? They just don't care.
 
PAX. The point that I was trying to make was................ Most people that don't look at the world through their colon only need to be told ONCE that their behavior is incorrect.
As far a legal authority is concerned, I have the RIGHT to protect myself from idiots that continue to aim weapons at me. So get off of your high assed horse, you don't live where I do, you don't know our laws and you wern't there.
 
cowboy, by your example, if I am at a bonfire, people get drunk and annoying, I have the right to beat them up and throw them in the river. Because I don't like their behavior. That is not the way the legal system works.

It always bothers me when people so casually accept beating others up because they don't like their behavior. You don't have the right to assualt the idiot, you do have the right to walk away.

As for another solution, in MI at least it is a misdemeanor to point a gun at anyone, even without malicious intent. If it really bothers you, call the police and get them arrested.
 
i also say moving the gun away with a finger is the perfect response. It is just physical enough to enforce a rule, and its nothing that will get you sent to prison.

Plus, notifying the upper management when a worker does something wrong, is always the correct action. Even if the worker doesn't get in trouble, he will not do it again, for fear of being hassled.
 
Most people that don't look at the world through their colon only need to be told ONCE that their behavior is incorrect.
Click to expand...
Really, the only behavior anyone of us can every really change is -- our own. In my life I've finally figured out that it's always easier to simply walk away than try to change someone's behavior. If the guy didn't respond the first time, well ...
As far a legal authority is concerned, I have the RIGHT to protect myself from idiots that continue to aim weapons at me. So get off of your high assed horse, you don't live where I do, you don't know our laws and you wern't there.
Click to expand...
I'd bet the laws pertaining to assault in Texas are pretty close to those here in the state of Washington ...
 
jefvnk. I don't give a rats patoot about people getting drunk and acting stupid, I do care when somone acts stupid with a weapon. Yes, I could have walked away, but what if this numbnuts would have shot someone else and I did nothing to change his behavior ???
In my religion we are taught to turn the other cheek, we have for 5000 years and all that has ever happened was we got that cheek slapped, well wimps, we don't turn it anymore.
Oh and by the way, I was NOT casual about placing my 2 fingers on this person, I gave it plenty of thought
 
Oh and by the way, I was NOT casual about placing my 2 fingers on this person, I gave it plenty of thought
Click to expand...

Apparently not enough. In all seriousness, you're sounding like you're getting angry because we think you did the wrong thing. Everyone has opinions, trying to out-tuff someone over the internet is like trying to sell, cheap, chinese goods to Walmart, they have enough, more than likely more than you do, they aren't gonna buy it.

Now, you do know that stupid people do carry. Some hardasses don't care about things like that and point "unloaded" or even loaded firearms at anyone they see fit. Lucky for you, this particular person was either ignorant or just plain dumb. Had he been carrying, you might have ended up in a bag. Didn't think about that, did you? Or maybe you did, I don't know you, can't really say myself. Had I walked into that store and saw a scuffle, I would have drawn on both of you knuckleheads, and if your attitude is anything like what we've seen here, I don't think either of us would have liked that, or the possible outcome. But do as you please tough guy, the rest of us will hopefully follow the following rule:

Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence and de-escalation.

Of course, I also like;

Be polite, Be professional. Be prepared to kill everyone you meet.
 
nineseven.
You are starting to sound like the some of the other jerks on this forum. You make statements and then insult me. Let me clarify something once again. I'M NOT A TOUGH GUY. Saying that you would draw down on me and that my attitude would have affected the outcome !!! Do you have a badge ??? If you don't then shut the hell up, all you would be is another fat guy that thinks he is Rambo. Get something straight, I'm one of the most mellow people that you would ever want to talk with.The only time I get irritated is when people second guess me when it is none of their business, as you can tell by my rambling you have not gotten on my last nerve, happy ???
This thread stared out as to paraphrase " tired of getting guns pointed at you" and what did you do???? all that has happened is that a few members have seen fit to attack me because of my actions. Let me make this clear. My actions are my actions, if I want lectures I'll ask my Mother. I frequent this board for the stimulating conversations ( sometimes) not to have peope threaten me, verbally attack me, call me "tough guy" etc...
 
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