Dot Torture Drill
- Thread starter breakingcontact
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breakingcontact
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Thats not the point of this drill. Most people that I have heard proclaim themselves "point shooters" cannot actually shoot well.
Really?
I figured this would be a great chance for some of them to show what they can do. 3 yards for starters, how hard can it be?
Many like to throw Bill Jordan and other masters out as the sterling example of unsighted fire being valid, but they arent willing to actually show what they can do, with real targets and timers. Right in front of the whole world. They've said they can do such and such. I'm not seeing any examples of it.
I'm truly not trying to be a jerk. If its that good a system, lets see some of it in real life, on film, in direct comparison to sighted fire scores and times by competant people. I see lots of stories, and "Way back when, I....", not much "This is what I'm talking about". This cant be that hard to show.
breakingcontact
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It is a metric. I dont doubt there are some very skilled "point shooters" out there. I respect that. Im sure some of the top guys could ace this drill point shooting. Just saying your average shooter who calls himself a "point shooter" is full of beans.Really?
I figured this would be a great chance for some of them to show what they can do. 3 yards for starters, how hard can it be?
Many like to throw Bill Jordan and other masters out as the sterling example of unsighted fire being valid, but they arent willing to actually show what they can do, with real targets and timers. Right in front of the whole world.
I'm truly not trying to be a jerk. If its that good a system, lets see some of it in real life, on film, in direct comparison to sighted fire scores and times by competant people. I see lots of stories, and "Way back when, I....", not much "This is what I'm talking about". This cant be that hard to show.
I suppose we could almost all "point shoot" and get good hits on a torso target at 3 yards but that is only one narrow skill.
This drill is to gain and show (if you choose) mastery of the fundamentals then to speed up or increase distance.
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Oh, I'm with you.
I would truly like to see some people that promote unsighted fire as being at least equal if not superior, post their targets. Much discussion around about what some people say they can do, but they havent given much evidence of it. 3 yards should be easy for expereinced unsighted fire shooters to do consistent, on demand work. And faster, of course, than sighted fire.
I would truly like to see some people that promote unsighted fire as being at least equal if not superior, post their targets. Much discussion around about what some people say they can do, but they havent given much evidence of it. 3 yards should be easy for expereinced unsighted fire shooters to do consistent, on demand work. And faster, of course, than sighted fire.
breakingcontact
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That is part of the reason I made this thread and have posted my targets.
Im not trying to show off. I shoot with one friend who is much better than me. I know where I am at. Drills like this prove objectively where we are at. If you have a baseline, you can improve. If you have accountability and honesty you can improve. A few guys on the XD site posted some very good groups.
From what I have seen, both in the military and shooting as a civilian...most people cannot shoot well, especially pistols, with speed and accuracy.
If we just go to the range and blast away what I we really doing? I got to where my accuracy was good enough so I started turning up the speed. Well that "good enough accuracy" wasnt good enough when shooting fast or at speed. So I am trying to tighten up the groups.
For all the talk that goes on on the gunboards about gear...I am trying to encourage others along with me to test themselves and to train to improve.
In total agreement. I see lots of "I can do this or that, blah blah,.." with generally little to show for it or show the theory in practice, very little real life, "This is what I'm doing and practicing, warts and all, and how I'm progressing over time". I'd be happy to see more of what youre doing and less of the other.
Theres one place in particular I've seen online where the majority are serious students of the gun, and show and say exactly what theyve been doing, how much theyve been shooting (and its often stunning amounts). The empty comments dont last long when asked to show what they can do. People are, mostly politely, asked to put up. I think more of that level of internet honesty and forwardness would be great.
Theres one place in particular I've seen online where the majority are serious students of the gun, and show and say exactly what theyve been doing, how much theyve been shooting (and its often stunning amounts). The empty comments dont last long when asked to show what they can do. People are, mostly politely, asked to put up. I think more of that level of internet honesty and forwardness would be great.
breakingcontact
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Im glad you understand what i am saying. It is tricky. Most sites are geared towards the hobbyist, hunters, plinkers and honestly the "tacticool" consumerist crowd who has never found a product they didnt want to hang off the AR.
On the other side are the real competitor sites who put up a lot of barriers to entry for newbies. Yes they may encourage you to go shoot a match but man, the harshness I have seen on the IDPA facebook page has to turn off more shooters than it welcomes. I know it is like that with many hobbies or pursuits. People tie their egos up into their gear, school of thought, experience and so on and like to bag on others for an ego boost.
So long story short im just trying to share the things that are helping me improve, being honest about the journey and encourage others.
breakingcontact, I'm quite pleased that you posted this up. I'm pretty fair at hitting distant objects or poking holes in paper in a nice tight cluster, at least on good days. That said, our club hosted a variation on the Ruger steel challenge. Very humbling to say the least to miss a big whopping steel plate numerous times. Aquiring multiple targets with someone holding a timer by my head certainly takes me out of my comfort zone. I'll see if I can get some photos up in the new year.
breakingcontact
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That buzzer going off or that first miss is like getting rocked in a boxing match. You will either fall back on fundamentals or be a mess the rest of the fight.
As cheesy as it sounds ive been focusing on breathing before shooting a course of fire to help calm down. Also practicing with a timer on the range helps get used to that cue.
How loud is steel when you miss it!?
I shot some of these a couple days ago. I was never close to clearing it and was reminded that I can't hit crap weak hand only.
I'll try again tomorrow with the goal of landing every shot in the appropriate circle, with the exception of assuming I'll push AT LEAST one weak-hand only out. We'll see if I can clear the other dots even if I go at the speed of a tectonic plate.
I'll try again tomorrow with the goal of landing every shot in the appropriate circle, with the exception of assuming I'll push AT LEAST one weak-hand only out. We'll see if I can clear the other dots even if I go at the speed of a tectonic plate.
riceboy72
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I did this drill a few months back when I went out with a very accomplished shooter who is a SWAT guy and Glock guy. We both prided ourselves in being "gun guys."
Man, was I wrong after I did this exercise. I felt like I had gone backward ten years, for some reason. This drill humbled me tremendously, and I always have a stack of these targets in my shooting bag and make it a part of my training whenever I shoot. Simple, yet very good training that focuses on the fundamentals of shooting.
Man, was I wrong after I did this exercise. I felt like I had gone backward ten years, for some reason. This drill humbled me tremendously, and I always have a stack of these targets in my shooting bag and make it a part of my training whenever I shoot. Simple, yet very good training that focuses on the fundamentals of shooting.
Yup.
Along the same lines, if you're in a situation where you can use a timer, it's probably a good idea to involve it any time you do any kind of shooting where timing your performance makes sense.
I do most of my shooting at public indoor ranges and can't use timers.
breakingcontact
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I shoot here mostly, so I do use my timer often. Once I get this drill down ill shoot it on a timer or put some distance on it.
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Comstock mode or similar (even just a stopwatch) is a good choice for this drill if you want a time element. You can preload a bunch of mags and just record your overall time, then try to beat it or improve your score within the same amount of time.
I haven't heard of the creators of the dot torture test using any sort of timers on DT, and it seems a bit redundant to me to add another element like per-shot par times when the drill is hard enough to ace within 3 yds and you can just move the target out for added difficulty.
That's how I've always done it; there are plenty of other drills you can do alongside that incorporate speed with fundamentals, like the FAST. But first it helps to test/elicit fundamentals, IMO.
Blue Thunder
Member
This was one of the drills on day one first up at one of my Gunfighting Courses I have taken in the last 4 years. I did fairly well right handed only and very poorly weak handed, hence I knew where I needed to work on improvement in short order. I am still working on weak handed but it has gotten better than almost all misses...
Exibar
Member
that looks like a blast (pun intended!)... next time my father and my son go out shooting with me we'll give it a try...
maybe bet a soda on who can get the best marks
maybe bet a soda on who can get the best marks
Fair enough and you can definitely do it if it suits you - from my reading (p-f) and experience though the best progression is just increasing distance.
I wouldn't say someone doing a time element was wrong but I do not really see the point when there are available drills that are so much more time oriented, though.
*Kemosabe*
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I did something similar by scaling down the .22lr silhouette targets to an 8.5x11 sheet of paper so I could shoot them in my 25 yd basement range. I put a Leupold lens adapter on my scope and it worked out great… nice to go to the basement anytime you wanted to practice or play.
However, I gave it up because after a while I noticed lead dust all around my Outers bullet trap. I priced the cost of a ventilation system to control the problem and the cost was out of the question. Oh well…
breakingcontact
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Crowcifier666
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Nice shooting. I've been shooting a revised dot torture for DA/SA. Not doing quite as well as you are.
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