Double charge and progressives: How?

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Shrinkmd

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I see it mentioned over and over (and see my previous post on needing to pull because of the fear). Can someone give me a logical run down on the most likely causes of a double charge, and how to avoid it happening. I have the Hornady powdercop die on order, but I've heard that for light charges it may not be effective anyway.

Besides for avoiding fast powders like Bullseye, or never using a progressive, or throwing each charge and immediately seating a bullet, what are the smart ways of avoiding this mishap ever occurring?
 
You can double charge even on a true progressive. Here is how it happens most of the time.

You lower the press arm down to raise he ram. The ram goes up bringing the shells close to the dies. Then as its going up , something happens. Say the plate isn't indexed exactly right. So your shell hits the resizing die and you stop the arm. You then raise the arm (lowering the ram) a bit and try to clear it out. You then fix the issue and lower the arm again and it then cycles properly.

The problem is that as you raised the ram with the first downstroke of the arm, you started to drop some powder into your bullet, but then you raised the arm (lowering the ram) and you started the powder drop cycle all over again. So you ended up doing anything from a little bit extra powder to a full blown double charge.

Thats why I always make sure and never 'short stroke' my press arm. If I have to, I stop all cycles and start over.

I have done that on both my Hornady and my Dillion.

If you don't shortstroke the press arm and do a full throw of the press arm everytime you stroke the press arm, you should conceiveably never be able to have a double charge. Squib maybe but a double charge shouldn't be possible unless you screw up with the press arm like I described above.

I'm talking about true progressives like the Square Deal B, the 650xl and up, the hornady Lock and Load AP. I'm not talking about th3e 550 which is not auto indexing and much easier to double charge if you aren't paying attention.
 
That is why you really need a powder check die in the process. I have caught a double charge with my Hornady powder cop die (I did the same thing as described). It also shows if you don't have enough powder. Dillon sells one too, but can't rember what they call it.
 
I have a Dillon 550, I do not use Dillon dies, Dillon seats on one position and crimps on another, I seat and crimp on the same position because I use a 'lock out die' for pistol and a 'powder checker' die for rifle cases.

For random checking, weigh each component, sort cases by weight, weigh each component, total the weight, the finish product should equal the total weight of the sum of it's components, the only variable is 'powder'.

Again while at the range I saw someone doing everything he could do to pull the trigger on his Model 66 S&W, he had a bullet stuck between the cylinder and barrel, we drove the bullet back into the cylinder and removed his hand loads, one case had no powder, the next case was full of powder, convincing him he could check the powder charge for each case with a scale was a tough sale, I offered to loan him one of my scales, I did explain to the need for knowing the weight of each component, he had his new Dillon 550 for 1 week, another reason for checking his work, if he was not going to ask for help.

F. Guffey
 
Greetings,

fgffey, could you point me to the look out and powder checkerdie that fit on the 550B? I would be interested to go with your setup.

Thank you
 
I am using a Dillion 550B, and have used it for at least twenty years.

In my opinion a progressive is safer, and you are less likely to throw a double charge than on a single stage.

The basic problem, regardless of press, is interruptions or distractions. Anytime the process is stopped or delayed, errors occur.

I believe you are more likely to double charge a cartridge when using a loading tray or block. It is easy to be distracted. And even though I inspected my powder levels, it is still easy to be distracted.

My loading process on a Dillon is such that if I get distracted, I will have a bullet in the left hand, or a case in the right. If I get distracted or interrupted, these will queue me that something is out of sequence Then my procedure is to pull pins, and check the cartridges.

I don’t have that with loading blocks.

So far to date, no double charges.
 
I would suggest you call 1 800 533 5000 and order a catalog with a special order catalog for free.

Lock out dies are not listed with other dies, both the lock out and powder checker dies are listed in my catalog on page 7 with the Piggy Back 3, the Powder Checker number is 87590, the Lock out die number is 09634, the Lock out die will lock the press, the problem can not be ignored, I have a Piggy Back 11 with 5 positions, no problem with room or options.

http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#Lock out die____-_

http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#powder checker____-_

F. Guffey
 
The basic problem, regardless of press, is interruptions or distractions. Anytime the process is stopped or delayed, errors occur.

errors may occure

any time my mind is called away while loading i leave the arm in the down position unless i have time to clear the plate. never had a problem figuring out where i was when i return.
 
The problem is that as you raised the ram with the first downstroke of the arm, you started to drop some powder into your bullet, but then you raised the arm (lowering the ram) and you started the powder drop cycle all over again. So you ended up doing anything from a little bit extra powder to a full blown double charge.
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This is correct. The only machine that will not let you double is the Dillon 1050 it has a ratchet style device that prevents anything except a complete stroke.
 
I see every charge I seat a bullet over. I loaded a few .40's last night on my Projector. Two cases got through without powder. The measure had gotten sticky and left two empty. That hasn't happened in a while. I was in a hurry and went ahead anyway when I knew I needed to hit the measure with some dry lube and give it time to dry. I saw it when seating the bullet, so no problem. It doesn't happen often with my set up, but it can. The moral? SEE every charge you seat a bullet over. One thing I don't like about Titegroup is the simple reason that the tiny little charge in the bottom of a .38 case is very hard to see and a double charge would be difficult to detect from an OK charge.
 
I see every charge I seat a bullet over.
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That is why I use compressed loads in .223

One thing I don't like about Titegroup is the simple reason that the tiny little charge in the bottom of a .38 case is very hard to see and a double charge would be difficult to detect from an OK charge.
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The Dillon powder check die can do this with no problem. Light charges of very fast powder are the best shooting loads I've found for many gun games (pistol) and cost less. Remember there are only 7000 grains per pound so the smaller the charge the more rounds you get from a pound of powder.

I have my expander/powder charge die for 9mm set so they will not drop a charge in a .380 case and the powder check die will tell me before I seat a bullet so I can remove it before hand. I would have found it at the case gauge anyway but it prevents me from having to pull a bullet.
 
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