justashooter
member
anybody ever build one of these? i am working with a set of 10 ga bbls and a 7/8-14 tap. the rest is scratch built underhammer pistol thinking.
ideas?
ideas?
double howdah pistol
- Thread starter justashooter
- Start date
- Status
unspellable
Member
Howdah pistol
A true Howdah pistol has the hammers on top, but then I don't know how authentic you are trying to make it.
A true Howdah pistol has the hammers on top, but then I don't know how authentic you are trying to make it.
Shootcraps
Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2004
- Messages
- 1,007
I read somewhere that the Howdahs are illegal to own under current law?......
Johnny Guest
Moderator In Memoriam
Reading between the lines - --
justashooter, all the underhammer firearms I've ever seen were percussion muzzleloaders. If you're considering one of these, you should be okay. Barrel length, overall length, and bore size seems to have no importance in this sort of arm.
I'd worry about you building a cartridge firearm, though, especially using a bore size over .50", which ten ga. certainly is.
I've seen some single and double handguns using 12 ga brass, but they had to have rifled barrels.
Please use caution to ensure you don't get crosswise with the law, just trying to make an unusual piece as a hobby project.
unspellable - - I've seen illustrations of such pistols with side hammers (spurs to the top OR angled to the rear,) as well as "hammerless" designs. One of the latter, made by Lancaster in England, was even a four-barrel.
Shootcraps - - I'd imagine a faithful replica of a breech-loading, rifled barrel Howdah pistol might well be illegal. If one came up with an authentic, 19th century, Howdah, though - - I imagine it would fall under the exemption list.
azrael - - I think you're right, in regard to purpose-built Howdah pistols being rifled. At the same time, I can certainly envision local gun mechanics in India and elsewhere, doing conversions of sporting shotguns to Howdah configuration.
Interesting topic, this.
Johnny
Best,
Johnny
justashooter, all the underhammer firearms I've ever seen were percussion muzzleloaders. If you're considering one of these, you should be okay. Barrel length, overall length, and bore size seems to have no importance in this sort of arm.
I'd worry about you building a cartridge firearm, though, especially using a bore size over .50", which ten ga. certainly is.
I've seen some single and double handguns using 12 ga brass, but they had to have rifled barrels.
Please use caution to ensure you don't get crosswise with the law, just trying to make an unusual piece as a hobby project.
unspellable - - I've seen illustrations of such pistols with side hammers (spurs to the top OR angled to the rear,) as well as "hammerless" designs. One of the latter, made by Lancaster in England, was even a four-barrel.
Shootcraps - - I'd imagine a faithful replica of a breech-loading, rifled barrel Howdah pistol might well be illegal. If one came up with an authentic, 19th century, Howdah, though - - I imagine it would fall under the exemption list.
azrael - - I think you're right, in regard to purpose-built Howdah pistols being rifled. At the same time, I can certainly envision local gun mechanics in India and elsewhere, doing conversions of sporting shotguns to Howdah configuration.
Interesting topic, this.
Johnny
Best,
Johnny
Shootcraps
Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2004
- Messages
- 1,007
I can't remember all the details. They used a 16ga Howdah in "Desperado". ONe of the gun mags was reviewing it and I thought he mentioned something about it being illegal. That magazine is stuffed in a box somewhere....
Preacherman
Member
justashooter
member
i have looked into this, and muzzle loading is not restricted in length. a cartridge gun would be, unless it was manufactured or converted to a short barrel config before 1898. this is from a FAQ sheet on the atf website.
i was going SXS because the barrel set was cheap, and underhammer just because this is the simplest lock system to scratch-build. i am going coil springs, rather than guard bow spring, because i need 2 sets. will post a few pix when it is done. the objective is to build something that looks period, with modern twist on a vintage design.
i was going SXS because the barrel set was cheap, and underhammer just because this is the simplest lock system to scratch-build. i am going coil springs, rather than guard bow spring, because i need 2 sets. will post a few pix when it is done. the objective is to build something that looks period, with modern twist on a vintage design.
unspellable
Member
Howdah pistols
I don't know that muzzle loading Howdah's were all rifled. In the large calibers employed you tend to round ball loads and even long arms are not always rifled. At the range a Howdah is meant to be used at, rifling is a moot point.
I don't know that muzzle loading Howdah's were all rifled. In the large calibers employed you tend to round ball loads and even long arms are not always rifled. At the range a Howdah is meant to be used at, rifling is a moot point.
carebear
Member
Where do you attach the leopard light? The leopard bayonet?
justashooter
member
now you know it's gonna have a pistol grip, but a telescoping stock, flash hider, high capacity magazine, and grenade launcher are outa the question.
i'm trying to step into some new territory, here.
i'm trying to step into some new territory, here.
Third_Rail
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2004
- Messages
- 4,979
Are howdah pistols still made in black powder? A quick search turned up nothing.
Dave Markowitz
Member
I don't have any ideas but I'm looking forward to pics of your finished piece.
I'm looking foreward to pics as well, I've been thinking about a project like this for a while. I'm not aware of any current production Howdah style, flint or percussion, and while I've seen some really lovely antiques, they're generally very expensive and/or on some British auction site.
Michael Zeleny
member
The law concerning gauges over .50 goes soemthing like this "calibers over .50 are considered to be destructive devices UNLESS they have a suitable sporting purpose that is recognized". I'd think that since the definition of howdah was a dangerous game defense pistol that they are OK. You could just skip all the legal crap and make it blackpowder in which case it would be perfectly fine....
I've seen one at a gunshow... finally. very much like the example preacherman posted.
Very cool.
I've seen the "cartridge" loadings for howdahs... more or less a soft lead ball (not a conical at all) in a brass case of 16 bore or larger. Rifling wasn't necessary but often used.
Very cool.
I've seen the "cartridge" loadings for howdahs... more or less a soft lead ball (not a conical at all) in a brass case of 16 bore or larger. Rifling wasn't necessary but often used.
Whitworth
Member
..............A guy on the 'Cast Boolits' forum (Google, Cast Boolits) has and shoots a couple original Howdahs.
Rick
Rick
howdah pistols
just rereading an old G&A magazine and in it was an article on .577 snider rifle caliber Howdah s/s pistol which sounded likeFUN to watch if not to shoot.The original anti lion or tiger belly gun.They were cartridge black powder rounds
just rereading an old G&A magazine and in it was an article on .577 snider rifle caliber Howdah s/s pistol which sounded likeFUN to watch if not to shoot.The original anti lion or tiger belly gun.They were cartridge black powder rounds
justashooter
member
seems to be an interest in this subject.
so i cut down the barrels, tapped them and made breech plugs, cut most of the lock peices from steel stock, and got sidetracked. found a sweet, tight, 12 ga hammer double for nearly free, with a broken stock wrist. have cut it from 25" to 18.5" (was already cut-down), and have roughed out a short buttstock with around 9" pull. the whole package is around 30", and weighs 5# in the rough. should be a neat coach style gun. the plan is to jug choke, and i am loading some all brass case # 7 1/2 for it. we will see what for patterns at 30 yard i get before i choke.
federal law prohibits making a pistol from a rifle or shotgun since 1968, but i am wondering if i could paper a cut-down shotgun with a pistol grip stock as an AOW? this may be a possibility, as you can go SBS and SBR from a full length gun. would be a 200$ making tax, and 5$ transfer from there, but a cheaply found, tight, vintage hammer double is a good place to start with this idea.
anybody versant on this? lemme write a letter...
so i cut down the barrels, tapped them and made breech plugs, cut most of the lock peices from steel stock, and got sidetracked. found a sweet, tight, 12 ga hammer double for nearly free, with a broken stock wrist. have cut it from 25" to 18.5" (was already cut-down), and have roughed out a short buttstock with around 9" pull. the whole package is around 30", and weighs 5# in the rough. should be a neat coach style gun. the plan is to jug choke, and i am loading some all brass case # 7 1/2 for it. we will see what for patterns at 30 yard i get before i choke.
federal law prohibits making a pistol from a rifle or shotgun since 1968, but i am wondering if i could paper a cut-down shotgun with a pistol grip stock as an AOW? this may be a possibility, as you can go SBS and SBR from a full length gun. would be a 200$ making tax, and 5$ transfer from there, but a cheaply found, tight, vintage hammer double is a good place to start with this idea.
anybody versant on this? lemme write a letter...
justashooter
member
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/feib/guidebook/FEIB-GB.pdf
page 61, weapon made from a rifle. appears to be taxable.
page 61, weapon made from a rifle. appears to be taxable.
ya kno......... something kinda seems sad when we get taxed for something we make for ourselves (keep in mind it's an antique replica). This is basically how it is: "To make a replica of a classic gun (for your own use) you need to pay $205 or else you would end up in jail for 10-30 years with all the charges they'd throw on ya (manufacture of an AOW, short barreled shotgun, then possession of both of those and also probably some ammo charge too)" Keep in mind YOU made this completely INNOCENT, ANTIQUE REPLICA yourself without any intent of HARMING ANYONE.
I generally love our government and law enforcement but this scenario/law almost puts a tear in my eye.
I generally love our government and law enforcement but this scenario/law almost puts a tear in my eye.
justashooter
member
clearly, the tax was a disincentive in 1934 to the making of any fun stuff. 200$ today is a small sum. a howdah shot pistol using 12 ga shotshells would be quite nasty to look at from the wrong end. thinking i am going to go this direction, since the butt is just in the rough, at this point.
less than 300$ for a toy like this? how can i resist?
less than 300$ for a toy like this? how can i resist?
ColonelFlashman
Member
Anything over .50 calibre is considered a Destructive device, so no, I would state that nothing today matching what is known as a Howdah pistole is being readily manufactured.
For those who wish to View a other types of Howdah Pistoles follow the links.
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/ah1278.htm
http://users.rcn.com/robertbrecht/4145.htm
http://www.gunshop.com/vinpix2003/dsc01066s.jpg
They came about from Bad experiences on Indian Tiger Hunts from the Back of a Paciderm while rinding in the Howdah Basket on its back & how it derived its name. They were for when the Tiger was up in a Tree & Lept onto the Hunters riding in the Howdah when the Tiger believed he was going to get a quick meal. They were to be used in these suprise attacks to blow the Tiger to Kingdom Come, usually w/ a minimum calibre of .577 all they way up to some of the Nitro Expresses. The Pistole length Bbl's for Quick use & Large calibre fasilitated this train of thought.
A great book to read on the Howdah Pistoles is;
Howdah to High Power: A Century of British Breechloading Service Pistols (1867-1967) by Robert J. Maze. 132 pages with black and white images. Details the numerous and varying service pistols of the British Military from 1867-1967. Includes many famous guns such as the Howdah pistol and the Webley. Well illustrated. $24.95
The "typical" Lancaster Pistole is in No Way a version of the Howdah, it was marketed to Civilians for the usual Personal Self-Defence & the Cavalry was Issued them to see if they were Better than a Typical Revolver w/ the thought of the least amount of moving parts & the ease of maintenance factor.
For those who wish to View a other types of Howdah Pistoles follow the links.
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/ah1278.htm
http://users.rcn.com/robertbrecht/4145.htm
http://www.gunshop.com/vinpix2003/dsc01066s.jpg
They came about from Bad experiences on Indian Tiger Hunts from the Back of a Paciderm while rinding in the Howdah Basket on its back & how it derived its name. They were for when the Tiger was up in a Tree & Lept onto the Hunters riding in the Howdah when the Tiger believed he was going to get a quick meal. They were to be used in these suprise attacks to blow the Tiger to Kingdom Come, usually w/ a minimum calibre of .577 all they way up to some of the Nitro Expresses. The Pistole length Bbl's for Quick use & Large calibre fasilitated this train of thought.
A great book to read on the Howdah Pistoles is;
Howdah to High Power: A Century of British Breechloading Service Pistols (1867-1967) by Robert J. Maze. 132 pages with black and white images. Details the numerous and varying service pistols of the British Military from 1867-1967. Includes many famous guns such as the Howdah pistol and the Webley. Well illustrated. $24.95
The "typical" Lancaster Pistole is in No Way a version of the Howdah, it was marketed to Civilians for the usual Personal Self-Defence & the Cavalry was Issued them to see if they were Better than a Typical Revolver w/ the thought of the least amount of moving parts & the ease of maintenance factor.
Last edited:
- Status