Double tapping 357?

[MrTuffPaws]

Okay, I can double tap my 9mm auto till the cows come home, keep the point of aim at the center of mass, and even follow up with a head shot. Last weekend I rented a 357 mag revolver, Taurus Tracker 627 4", and put a 100 rounds through it. I was shooting 158 grain lead nose Magtec flap tops and CCI 125 grain hollow points.

Let me tell you, it was not easy. I felt like I was trying to aim an angry bull rather than a revolver. Aiming single shots was fine, but trying to quickly follow up with a second was near impossible for me. My hand was aching by the last round.

So, for self defense with magnum calibers, how do you practice? Is it just practice, practice, practice until you are able to control it, or do you guys even attempt double taps?

 

[Ala Dan]

The 125 grain .357 magnum JHP's is not the load to practice double
taps with as fired from any .357 magnum caliber handgun!

These factory loads are some of the hottest loads out there, and
fired from ultralight firearms such as the Taurus Tracker could prove
very uncomfortable. Prolonged use of these loads not only rake havoc
on the shooters nerves; but quickly turn a quality firearm into junk.

Therefore, I strongly recommend .38 Special mid-range semi wadcutters
for practice using the double-tap method; and limit the 125 grain .357
magnum JHP's to real life self defense situations as most provoked
attacks occur from 0 to 7 yds with only three shots needed.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

So, for self defense with magnum calibers, how do you practice? Is it just practice, practice, practice until you are able to control it,

Yes, assuming that what is being practiced is proper grip and stance and not just the reenforcing of bad habits. Practicing a bad golf swing endlessly won't make it any more accurate.

or do you guys even attempt double taps?

Yes, successfully.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Check out your grip and make sure you are placing your hand as far as you can up to the top--the hammer should almost touch your hand as it comes back. This will give you the best lever advantage for control of recoil.

If you get a chance, watch Jerry Miculek in action on ShootingUSA or the other competitors in segments on ICORE competition.

Of course, if you want to be REALLY fast you would use .38 spl. Competitors do as they would spend too many microseconds recovering with full loads.

 

[SDC]

So, for self defense with magnum calibers, how do you practice? Is it just practice, practice, practice until you are able to control it, or do you guys even attempt double taps?

Basically; the last IPSC Provincial championships I shot up here, I used a S&W Model 19 with .357 158-gr JSPs, and double-tapping targets is a combination of a good, high grip on the revolver and good trigger control. One of the stages I enjoyed the most involved two targets at about 30 feet, moving right to left and away from you at the same time, with a total exposure of about 3 seconds; I was able to get all A's (4 shots) on both targets, in DA. Practice, practice, practice

 

[R.H. Lee]

The .357 magnum is optimal in a barrel length of no less than 6". Anything less results in too much muzzleflash and recoil.

 

[L-Frame]

I've always thought that double taps were given too much importance. With practice, it is not difficult to get a good pace of fire with .357 mags, which is all you really need. I don't practice double taps much. I fire the same time between shots and pick up speed as I practice. With a revolver, due to it's ammo constraints, there might be times when you can't afford to double tap. At those times, you don't want your training instincts to kick in and expend all of your ammo when you have other targets to deal with. Practicing dtap's are fine but don't think that if you're not doing that you're not practicing combat handgunning.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Is it just practice, practice, practice until you are able to control it, or do you guys even attempt double taps?

As far as I'm concerned, accuracy must necessarily come before speed. Magnum double taps will unavoidably be slower, but more effective in the real world.

 

[fulloflead]

L-Frame: I've always thought that double taps were given too much importance. With practice, it is not difficult to get a good pace of fire with .357 mags, which is all you really need. I don't practice double taps much. I fire the same time between shots and pick up speed as I practice. With a revolver, due to it's ammo constraints, there might be times when you can't afford to double tap. At those times, you don't want your training instincts to kick in and expend all of your ammo when you have other targets to deal with. Practicing dtap's are fine but don't think that if you're not doing that you're not practicing combat handgunning.

I like L-Frame's advise.

To practise DA get yourself a bunch of cheap 38 specials and start close; like 10 feet. Practise smooth, even trigger pulls. Then go a little faster and faster. Move the target out further as you get better. Then move up to magnums.

It's NICE to have a 22LR DA revolver to practise with because you can do a lot of practising with cheap 22 ammo!

 

[Boats]

I can DT my 4" Ruger .357 with no problem, using bullet weights from 125 to 180 grains. I don't see what the problem is in a duty sized frame because it is amenable to practice. I do like the advice not to be slavish about DT'ing because it is primarily a CQB tactic and not a one size fits all scenarios solution. Smoothness is better than speed in most applications anyway.

A snub is a whole 'nuther story on DT'ing however.

 

[P95Carry]

The platform is a major factor. I can do adequate DT's thru my 4" M28-2 ... it is tuned and smooth - just the grip has to be right.

Thru my SP however - the flash and increased discomfort make that slower and so +P 38 spls reside in it... Cor-Bons.

I agree with SW re accuracy vs speed ... there are trade-offs but you do need to be able to maintain adequate accuracy... even if speed slightly reduced.

 

[wanderinwalker]

I like L-Frame's advice. Heck, with medium-vel .44 Magnums in my 6" 629, I could REALLY screw up somebody's day in no-time flat. With .44 Specials I lose very little speed compared to my Glock 17 and I increase the bullet weight and size significantly. When demonstrating control and technique for less-experienced shooters, I like to use the .44 Magnum or even a .45 ACP revolver to prove that any handgun can be fired fast and accurately after enough practice.

 

[SnWnMe]

Practice, comfortable grips, and correct hold for what you are trying to do. Don't go for the rapid pair right away. The results will discourage you and you run out of ammo without getting anything done. Master a quick rate of fire first. Get a feel for what the revolver wants to do and what you must do to control it. You'll also find out what stocks will work for you. Before long the DTs will just come naturally.

 

[Preacherman]

One of the reasons I carry .357's is that I don't need to double-tap with that much power on hand! I've only got 6 rounds to play with, so I'd rather get one good round into multiple opponents, or use a controlled pair (rather than a double-tap) on opponents further away from me.

 

[stormyone]

It really is just practice, practice, practice. I've been shooting my GP100 with various 357 loads for over 15 years and have gotten very good at double taps. I really love being able to double tap and seeing the rounds hitting my target about 2 inches apart. I figure those double taps are gonna leave an awesome wound channel.

 

[JPM70535]

My first experience with the 357 was as a cadet at the La. State Poilce Academy. We were trained using 38 special WCs and shot qualificatios with 357 125 JHPs IIRC. Double taps were used a close ranges, 1-7 yds, focusing on the front sight. At those ranges, keeping the space between rounds at 2-3 inces was no problem even with the 357s. Through the years I regularly practice double taps with my CC weapons, boyj Autos snd Revolvers. The only difficulty I ever encountered was in trying to keep an Alloy J frame S&W on target with the 357 loads. I keep using light 357 reloads for the majority of my pratice (150 gr SWC,5,5 gr. 231) but lways shoot at least 3 cylinders of 125 JHPs since I subscribe to the "Shoot what you carry" theory.

BTW, one of the best exercises I found for learning to keep groups small is the El Presidente.

 

[Ankeny]

Double taps, or two shots with one sight picture, is a nutty idea to begin with. You need to see something and that something might as well be the sights lifting and returning...or at least be aware of the relationship of the gun to the target surface peripherally.

The mechanics of a wheelgun just make it harder to achieve fast splits in comparison to a semi-auto. You need to crank the trigger a long ways, and the gun has no reciprocating mass to assist in returning the front sight to the target. The timing is determined by the weight of the gun and the shooter. The higher the muzzle lifts, the longer it will take to return the sights. FWIW, even Master class IPSC revolver shooters don't achieve splits anywhere near as fast as what their bottom feeder counter parts routinely achieve.

Fast splits with a wheelgun boil down to a biomechanically efficient shooting platform (grip, balance, stance) and a whole bunch of practice. Yanking on the trigger as fast as you can at bad breath distance seems to work for some folks too.