Doublestack 10mm that ISN'T a Glock?

[NoobCannon]

So, in an effort to diversify my collection, and earmark some of my inheritance I'm to be receiving as soon as it becomes released to me, I would like to purchase a 10mm handgun. Price isn't necessarily a concern for this, but I'd prefer to stay around $700 total. New or Used isn't a big concern either, as many dependable firearms have come my way that were secondhand.

I started my search for a good 10mm, and I see offerings from Kimber(Too expensive, not double stack), Colt(Sam problem), the old S&W 3rd Gen*, and Glock(I'm just not a fan of glocks...), as well as the EAA Witness line.

Now, the 3rd gen S&Ws, all I've seen are single-stacks, and while the prices are more than good, The lack of capacity makes me shy away. The EAA Witness lines of pistols are in my price range, are double stack, and they seem to be of decent quality. Does anyone out there own one of these?

Is there anything I'm missing? The power and capacity of the 10mm really gets my attention, and I think it'd be a very capable platform I can take hog hunting on occasion as my "Oh Crap" gun, then keep it on my nightstand at night.

If anyone out there suggests I get a .45, already ahead of you. I got plans to get one of those, too. Right now I wanna focus on the 10mm.

And No Glocks, please. I just don't like them. Yes, I won't deny they're dependable and accurate, but they look like someone put a gun together using legos.

 

[ATLDave]

I own an EAA Witness Elite Match 10mm. Love it. Came out of the box with a good trigger, and a trip to the gunsmith made it great, IMO. Big, serious piece of steel. Low bore axis means not a lot of muzzle flip... I can shoot it very nearly as fast as my Browning 9mm.

 

[NoobCannon]

How does it handle the recoil? One would imagine with that much steel it'd just soak up the recoil. Do you know if it can handle the full power 10mm Rounds(A reloading set is on my wishlist to Santy Claws)?

 

[ATLDave]

It handles the recoil quite well. Much less "spicy" to shoot than my friend's Glock 20. It still gives a firm push backward, but not a crazy amount of flip. My wife, who is not a gun person, enjoys shooting it, if that gives any indication.

Before I got mine, I read several people on the internet report that they come undersprung from the factory, so before I put the first round through mine, I upgraded to a 20lb recoil spring. I've got about 1000 rounds down the pipe and haven't had any real problems, nor any indication of unusual wear. Most of what I shoot is not true full-house 10mm loads, more like very strong .40. But I've shot a few rounds of hotter stuff and had no issues. I don't know that I'd want to subject any gun to thousands of rounds of Buffalo Bore stuff.

 

[NoobCannon]

that goes without saying. I'd just like to carry it into the woods with a magful of the hot stuff when I go hunting, so for whatever reason if I end up on the wrong side of an angry, wounded boar, I'll have something that'll drop it quick.

Looks like my eyes are set on a nice new Witness. Unless anyone can think of anything better. I'd really be all over the S&W 3rd Gen series if they came in doublestack, but so far I've found nothing.

 

[NG VI]

Personally I'd most want one of the 3rd gen DAO S&Ws, regardless of magazine size. I think 9+1 is probably enough, even though I usually subscribe to the more is better school of thought.

 

[harmon rabb]

Personally I'd most want one of the 3rd gen DAO S&Ws, regardless of magazine size. I think 9+1 is probably enough, even though I usually subscribe to the more is better school of thought.

Every time I think that way, I'm reminded that I can just get a 10mm 1911 if i don't mind low capacity.

 

[NG VI]

Yeah, I don't really care for 1911s though, even if they are usually excellent pieces of workmanship.

I'd rather have a great DAO trigger, I just find I pay more attention to the sights when I've got something like that to run.

 

[jerkface11]

I had a compact witness 10mm the only problem I had with the gun was the thing would throw the brass 20 yards.

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

Witness is really your only option.

 

[HDCamel]

Witness.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I love my Witness 10mm's (have two, a compact and a Limited) and I love my Kimber Stainless Target II. I have a G20 for thrashing in the woods, too.

All that said, if I could only keep one handgun, it'd be my S&W 1006. It may only hold 9, but it's very accurate, supremely reliable and stronger than any other 10mm made.



I'd strongly suggest that you give the 3rd gens a fair shake, despite their capacity limitations. Most who own them, covet them, and for good reason.

As an aside, if they ever make it to our shores, the Sarzilmas K2 is a 17+1 round full size 10mm. But EAA has been dragging their feet on getting 'em here. I'll probably buy one when they do.

 

[jibbs]

Kinda funny that I stumbled upon this thread. Like yourself I wanted a double stack 10mm in the worst way. Not real reason for it, I just wanted a 10mm preferably double stacked. The caveat was that I really wanted it in a 1911, preferably 6" not 5". Well turns out someone makes that exact gun, STI's Perfect 10. I know that this particular gun is probably not in your short list and probably shouldn't be cause it is so expensive, but everyone I know who has shot one of their custom guns have nothing but praise for them.

I got in contact with a guy who I traded ammo with and he said he actually shot one, which is pretty rare cause not too many people are willing to drop 2.5k on custom gun in a obsolete caliber that isn't allowed in most comps. He said it shot with less recoil than a 40, and they were using Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, and Elite Ammunition to see which one had the closest claims to high fps numbers. Even if he exaggerated his story, which is possible, it is still a gun I am getting.

Just FYI, I went through just about everything short of jumping thru flaming hoops to get this gun ordered. It is not a gun you will see on the shelf of a store. It has to be made to order, unless the store orders one, but I have only seen 1 of these for sale on GB and ironically it was within the past week. I put my order in Dec 2010, and just found out ill get it Jan 2012. Don't take it out on STI, it was mostly my LGD, but the gun still takes 3 months to make when the order gets put in.

Sorry for the long winded response to a honest question. Witness it is sir, just wanted to let you know about the gun you probably really want. Think of it this way, I highly doubt anyone else has one, and it is a sweet looking 1911/2011 that is super functional. And you can get Big Sticks (High Capacity Mags) that I believe will give you 22+ rounds, but I'm not 100% on that.

 

[NoobCannon]

I'm leaning more towards the Witness now more than ever. Allow me to explain the situation.

My Grandfather had passed away recently, leaving both myself and my father with A HUGE amount of Exxon stocks. While things are getting taken care of by the Lawyers, I'm stuck here with the realization that I'm about to come into the most money that I've ever seen in my life. To celebrate the newfound wealth, and to remember ol' Peepaw, both me and my dad have been earmarking guns to purchase. Yet, for some reason, I'm still stuck on trying to be thrifty. Old habits die hard.

I told my friend about my idea to purchase a 10mm Auto, and he flat fell in love with the Colt, so that's off my list for good. I can't have something that he has!

So, looks like when I get my ducks in a row, a Witness 10mm is going to find it's way to me.

 

[NG VI]

Jibbs can you find out how the Buffalo/EA ammunition stacked up against each other and their claims?

Noob in your position and with your goal in mind, I'd go with probably the Witness Match, I believe that's the one that offers a good amount of upgrade for a really small amount of money over the basic, and I'd try to pick up one (at least) of the S&W 3rd gens while you're at it, because they aren't being made anymore, they are selling for much less today than when they came out, and they are a ton of gun for the money.


And I'm sorry to hear about your loss, my grandmother just died this year as well. Mother's day, oddly enough.

 

[InkEd]

Don't know how much money you're getting BUT it's not as much it sounds like on paper. Keep being thrifty with your finances. Spend no more than 1% at the max on cool stuff. Invest the rest wisely and be smart about it.

 

[Chuck Perry]

How's about a double stack Para in 40SW, get the bbl rechambered to 10mm?

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

STI or SVI-Infinity double-stack (2011 style). You'll have to increase your budget for the STI or Infinity, but they're really good guns.

 

[jibbs]

@ NG VI

Take this with a grain of salt, the guy I was dealing with was sponsored by EA. I was told that the EA had higher velocity (in line with claims) and tighter std. dev with shots than BB (was below claims but close) or DT (100+ fps off claims). BB was supposedly close and he said that DT was junk, at least the rounds they had (had std. dev all over the place and no where near claimed vel). I kinda heard that DT had slipped a bit in quality but not to the extent he experienced, but I have also not re-upped with them in at least 2 years.

The EA is loaded above sammi specs. It explains a whole lot when it is loaded hotter than anyone else. EA recommends that you get a heavier spring if your gonna use their ammo. They list it on their website as 10mm +P, which I know and you know doesn't exist, but they leave on there so someone is aware of the fact that it is above the "safe zone".

To the OP, just something to take into consideration. I buy guns with the intention of them never leaving my possession or my families for that matter. I only buy quality guns these days (not to say Witness is junk), so if I buy a gun, it is going to fill a niche that I need. I have a lot of niches, but only 1 spot for a 10mm. The only guns I own in the same caliber are my revolvers, but even those for varying barrel lengths. Just to put it into perspective on how many niches I have, I also own a FsN (FiveSeveN) that is getting done up with a lot of stuff I know I don't need, but will be happy when its all done. There is really no need for me to add a specialty gun like this into my collection, but what other handgun can you put a can (.223 rifle and pistol rounds) on and fire subsonic ammo from while still being able to fire full throttle rounds at 2200 fps?

 

[Mr.Blue]

I'd get the Colt Delta Elite. You can't go wrong with a 1911 from Colt. It'll run out of the box, but if it doesn't Colt will make you happy.

Conversely, EA customer service is pretty bad. I hear they've gotten better, but who knows.

Two more points- 1. Colt handguns hold their value very well. 2. Colts are made in the good old USA. Being from Texas, I thought you might prefer that. I certainly do.

 

[jibbs]

Funny you posted that, both STI and SVI are out of Texas. I was thinking it but you said it first. I try to buy US guns whenever possible. Only exceptions are my FsN, Yugo M57, (try to find either a 5.7 or a 7.62 Tok made by a US manufacture) a few Glocks (carry guns I consider disposable plus I shoot them better than M&P's), and one Sako rifle handed down to me in pristine condition that I will never shoot. All but the rifle were bought by me. I even bought a DB9 to give a newer company a chance in this economy (which btw is a great carry piece and no ftf as of a few hundred rounds). Cant lose with a Colt either. Great guns.

With EA, don't be in a hurry or you'll be disappointed. They are short when you call them as well. I don't hold people skills against companies that produce quality specialty products. Plus they are in the midst of a ATF battle.

 

[Mr.Blue]

Yeah, I forgot about STI. I've heard good things about them.

 

[Zundfolge]

The "Money No Object" answer to your question is the STI Perfect 10

But that's 2.5 Kilobucks ... quite a ways away from your budget. In your budget the EAA Witness is probably your best bet.

You MIGHT get lucky and find a Para Ordnance P16-40 that has been converted to 10mm in the $700 range (but then you have to get double lucky and find one that runs reliably at that price).

Another option you might consider is a Glock 20 or 29 (yes, I know you don't want a Glock)... and then have it customized like crazy (grip reduction, stippling, rounded trigger guard, melt down slide, beaver tail, etc) then its not so Glocky.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I'm leaning more towards the Witness now more than ever

They're good guns.

Since it sounds like you can afford a bit more than the entry level standard model, might I suggest this:

The Stock II is quite a step up from the standard or Match model, with raised front and rear grip checkering, full length dust cover, tapered cone barrel and fully hard chromed. I probably wouldn't have my Limited if the Stock II had been available 5 years ago, because I wanted double action. These critters are around $800.

 

[bpsig]

I know of one more but I don't know if it has made it's way into the USA yet. The 45 version was imported by eaa. It's made in Turkey all steel based broadly on cz there claims. blue or stainless 10mm 15-17 roundS Sar k2 10mm. da/sa/