Dpms Or Rock River???

[hags]

This thread should be closed as it's moved waaaaay beyond what the OP is about, IMHO.

 

[ArmedBear]

The Army's M4 contract is with FN, of course. That's where I'm coming from with that last statement.

At least you finally answered the question about why a Colt is better. Your answer has nothing to do with being "more than the sum of its parts". Your answer is that the parts are better parts, with better tolerances. That's exactly what I was saying. It has nothing to do with who puts the pins in the holes.

I'm glad you're an ethical dealer who gives out good information. We need more like you. Seriously. But don't take offense if your fellows out there have made it so that that's not the baseline assumption. Clearly, you're more than happy to make all sorts of assumptions about other people.

 

[ArmedBear]

Are you capable of an original thought?

LOL

If something is true, and I wrote it, then it would look about like the truth written by someone else, now wouldn't it? You really don't think that your post was the first time I'd ever come across that information, do you?

I didn't ask what was different about Colt as a manufacturer, BTW, I asked for an answer about what was BETTER about their guns, and worth the price premium. And by asking, I wasn't denying that they are. I was asking for an answer that was meaningful. Damn near every manufacturer contracts out parts, or whole assemblies, in every field of manufacturing. Simply making it yourself doesn't make it better.

 

[hags]

The Army's M4 contract is with FN, of course. That's where I'm coming from with that last statement.

At least you finally answered the question about why a Colt is better. Your answer has nothing to do with being "more than the sum of its parts". Your answer is that the parts are better parts, with better tolerances. That's exactly what I was saying. It has nothing to do with who puts the pins in the holes.

I'm glad you're an ethical dealer who gives out good information. We need more like you. Seriously. But don't take offense if your fellows out there have made it so that that's not the baseline assumption. Clearly, you're more than happy to make all sorts of assumptions about other people.

Straight from the Colt military website:

Colt Defense LLC is the sole source supplier of the M4 Carbine to the US military and the only manufacturer worldwide that meets or exceeds all US military specifications for the weapon.

Guys like you make assumptions about alot of things and play loose with the facts.

As far as I know, FN is only contracted and licensed to make some M16A4s.

It has a little to do with "who puts the pins in", as there is a little more to it than that. There are humans involved with all phases of gun manufacturing, therefore there are chances for mistakes at all phases of gun manufacturing.

I have assumed nothing, I base my assertions on experience.

 

[hags]

If something is true, and I wrote it, then it would look about like the truth written by someone else, now wouldn't it? You really don't think that your post was the first time I'd ever come across that information, do you?

No, I'm sure you've seen alot of posts on the subject. I have seen it firsthand, in person, and in real life. It's called experience.

 

[hags]

I didn't ask what was different about Colt as a manufacturer, BTW, I asked for an answer about what was BETTER about their guns, and worth the price premium. And by asking, I wasn't denying that they are. I was asking for an answer that was meaningful. Damn near every manufacturer contracts out parts, or whole assemblies, in every field of manufacturing. Simply making it yourself doesn't make it better.

Wouldn't it follow that a better manufacturer of guns makes a better gun, or no?

 

[ArmedBear]

My mistake. FN was full of crap with their own announcements.

Wouldn't it follow that a better manufacturer of guns makes a better gun, or no?

Yes. Of course. What I wrote was that simply manufacturing parts doesn't mean you make BETTER parts.

If you make BETTER parts, you'll make better guns.

OTOH, a manufacturer who contracts out some parts to other companies who can make them better will have a better final product, still. If Colt makes the BEST parts themselves, they will make the best guns.

(Civilian example: a 10/22 with all-Ruger parts is a POS. Put parts from others who make them better in it, and it can be an impressive little gun, for what it is.)

You outlined how Colt makes better parts, to better tolerances. That's what matters. I haven't spent time in Iraq, but I do know a little bit about machining...

My point about military armorers is that the guns used in the field were not necessarily put together, in their present form, at Colt's factory or any other factory. And they still work the same, if assembled correctly. If you take a Colt apart, and put it back together, it's still the same top-quality gun, right?

Which brings us back to the original question, to which I think we had exactly the same answer.

(And at the moment, I'm sick, and bored. So sue me if I post here.)

 

[dphillips]

KBintheSLC, also check out, The Maryland AR15 Shooters site.
There is alot of good info. on that site too.
Two good books,The AR15 complete owner's guide by
Walt Kuleck and The AR15 by Patrick Sweeney.
Hope this helps some.

 

[Eightball]

So far as the comparison between DPMS and RRA.....I saw both next to each other in the shop when I bought my AR. Being a demanding and exacting rifle enthusiast, I of course inspected several examples of each, and discovered that the average DMPS was a more sloppily put together rifle, with slightly less fit and a slightly less adequate finish than the RRA. I bought my RRA, and have never had one complaint about it; the one thing the DPMS's had going for them was that they were cheaper. But, my way of looking at things is that if you get the right thing the first time, it won't matter what it cost, you'll never worry about it, only cherish the firearm; wheras if you go the "this one was $X00 cheaper" route, you'll always remember exactly what you paid for it, and you will always remember the other, absolutely perfect option as the "one that got away", and you'll kick yourself. For me, the RRA was the perfect weapon, what with quality, fit, finish, that awesome trigger, feel, balance, feature, etc....but to each their own. If the DPMS "does it" for you, then so be it, but my RRA is one of the more impressive AR's I've seen out there, and people who have previously used nothing but the "genuine item" are thoroughly impressed with my little 16" middy rifle.

I voted RRA.