I'm new to firearms, I'm a small guy and I'm not to good with the weight of full sized ak-47s so i've decided the draco is the way to go. I would like to use it for home defense / learning to maintain a weapon / and recreational purposes. I need to know what ammo i should use for recreation and home defense. I live in an urban enviornment, but, every time theres a home invasion its usually around 3 armed men. Not 2 weeks ago there was a robbery that ended in a shooting right across the street. I live in Florida if that somehow helps? Any advice would be great.
Draco ak-47 pistol
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Justin
Moderator Emeritus
I'll be completely honest with you:
If you're looking for a serious home defense gun, do not get a gun that is a rifle action configured as a pistol.
Guns like the Draco or the Olympic Arms OA93 basically combine the worst aspects of a rifle with the worst aspects of a handgun.
They're larger and bulkier than a handgun, which means they require more strength to hold and aim properly. Additionally the lack of a shoulder stock means that they are going to be harder to aim than a rifle.
Also, the very short barrels on these guns tends to result in a gun that is exceedingly loud with a very prominent muzzle flash, both things that will hinder you if you find yourself having to defend your home at 3:30 AM.
For home defense, you'd be best going with a shotgun with a proper shoulder stock, or a handgun like a Glock, S&W M&P, or SIG.
For the most part, unless you have a physical disability of some sort, a long gun shouldn't be too hard to handle, especially for something like a home defense scenario.
Either way, a shotgun or handgun would be a much more practical choice for home defense than something like a Draco.
If you don't have much pre-existing experience shooting firearms, I'd also recommend taking an introductory self-defense or firearms safety course.
If you're looking for a serious home defense gun, do not get a gun that is a rifle action configured as a pistol.
Guns like the Draco or the Olympic Arms OA93 basically combine the worst aspects of a rifle with the worst aspects of a handgun.
They're larger and bulkier than a handgun, which means they require more strength to hold and aim properly. Additionally the lack of a shoulder stock means that they are going to be harder to aim than a rifle.
Also, the very short barrels on these guns tends to result in a gun that is exceedingly loud with a very prominent muzzle flash, both things that will hinder you if you find yourself having to defend your home at 3:30 AM.
For home defense, you'd be best going with a shotgun with a proper shoulder stock, or a handgun like a Glock, S&W M&P, or SIG.
For the most part, unless you have a physical disability of some sort, a long gun shouldn't be too hard to handle, especially for something like a home defense scenario.
Either way, a shotgun or handgun would be a much more practical choice for home defense than something like a Draco.
If you don't have much pre-existing experience shooting firearms, I'd also recommend taking an introductory self-defense or firearms safety course.
If i was able to add a stock after the proper legal business, would that help? I've never been big on shotguns because most of the ones at my lgs are too heavy even a dbl barrel shotgun is really heavy more so than the Ar-15s. And the pistols are way overpriced the Draco is cheaper than almost all the pistols in effective calibers.
Justin pretty much sums it up, you mentioned youve never been big on shotguns cause of the weight, if you search theres allot that are lighter thans most ar-15s. one is the cz-712 semi-auto=6.6lbs/20" BL/4+1 cap. i would seriously consider a shotgun for hd and the ak pistol for recreational. i purchased the mini-draco and that would be last on my list for hd.
if you could only get one to encompass both like fun and hd. felt more comfortable with a longer weapon than a pistol, because my vision isnt the best and i find rifle sights better from what ive noticed at the lgs. pistols feel kind of akward and are hard to aim for me. Im using graduation gift money for this so it isnt going to be thousands probably around 500$. so a reasonably priced easy to aim rifle that doesnt require me cleaning it every day or worrying about how grimey it gets when i go with my friend to the boonies and shoot. Thats why i think ive focused on the ak style weapons. tho i know it has to be maintained just not as often as a pistol or american made weapon.
Shotgun for home defense. Sure you can hammer nails with a screwdriver but it's the wrong tool for the job. It take a long time to get proficient with handguns, think how many times you missed the dartboard altogether when you first threw darts as a kid and you get a general idea. Multiply that under pressure... a shotgun with low recoil buckshot is the way to go. You are much less likely to harm others (penetration nowhere near a rifle round) and much more likely to hit your target. And even in Florida I'd hate to be tried by a jury staring down a mean looking pistol chambered for rifle rounds.
Rail Driver
Member
I don't disagree with anything that anyone said so far, however I must add that Draco pistols and mini draco pistols are a LOT of fun. They are a relatively small package, and they pack one heck of a punch. Personally, I feel that with a set of tech sights, a decent folding shoulder stock (and SBR tax stamp), and lots of practice; the Draco can be a formidable, reliable and effective home defense weapon in the right situations. Flash hiders can be added to mitigate and in some cases almost totally negate the flash. Firing any firearm indoors in a HD situation is going to be loud enough to cause hearing damage, so a little bit more or less is probably not going to make too much difference (any licensed audiologists or medical doctors feel free to chime in and correct me if I'm mistaken).
chevyman097
Member
If shotguns and full size AKs are too heavy for you then you likely wont be able to handle a Drako. yes shorter, lighter, more compact. But if you're that weak the recoil will beat you up.
Take a firearms class.
Take a firearms class.
i can manage holding the draco loaded and everything its fine its just the full length rifles are bulky and usually end up being heavy as there are no polymer ones at the lgs, if i could fit a adjustable stock it would be perfect if i could somehow change the furniture out to be all polymer that would be amazing
Andrew Wyatt
Member
1. get an Ar-15.
2. take a rifle class from someone.
2. take a rifle class from someone.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
If you can't engage three targets at close range with a handgun like a Glock, it's not likely you'll be able to do it with something like a Draco, either.
It's not the gun.
If you're on a strict budget (you mentioned $500), you'll still be able to find something reasonable. Again, unless you've got a disability of some sort, I have a hard time believing that a shotgun would be prohibitively difficult for you to handle.
If you absolutely need something lighter, then get a handgun. Open up any Thrifty Nickel or any of the classifieds section of the various online gun forums, and you should be able to find a good condition previously owned gun like a Glock without much searching. Those often go for less than $500.
wecome to the forum. one thing i would like to add is how much distance beween your house and your neighbors house. becuse even if you are defending yourself you are responsible for every round you fire until it comes to a stop. so if you miss with an 7.62x39 that round will probley exit the house & still travel for awhile. which is why some of the earlier post recommended a pistol or shotgun. which could still exit the house and hit someone or something, it just has less energy to dissipate. i think it is good to prepare to defend yourself & your family it just isn't the best tool for the job. i also highly recommend taking a local introductory firearms class.
I agree with the previous posters against getting a Draco or similar gun for HD purposes. At first when I heard of the Draco it sounded too good to be true...then when I looked into it more, turns out it was too good to be true (for HD anyway). There is no free lunch, and that certainly applies to making a rifle into pseudo-pistol.
One thing you might want to consider is a semi-auto SMG, like the Kel Tec SUB-2000 or an MP5 clone. These are chambered for pistol cartridges so you don't run into the issues that the Draco has. They count as a long gun rather than an SBR so you don't need to worry about NFA. Having a stock and longer sight radius will make it more accurate than a pistol, while still being short enough for easy handling. Recoil shouldn't be bad, especially with a 9mm Luger chambering. The longer barrel will give you better muzzle velocity than a pistol and probably reduced flash as well. The SUB-2000 has $400 MSRP, although Kel Tec products are sometimes hard to find in stock.
One thing you might want to consider is a semi-auto SMG, like the Kel Tec SUB-2000 or an MP5 clone. These are chambered for pistol cartridges so you don't run into the issues that the Draco has. They count as a long gun rather than an SBR so you don't need to worry about NFA. Having a stock and longer sight radius will make it more accurate than a pistol, while still being short enough for easy handling. Recoil shouldn't be bad, especially with a 9mm Luger chambering. The longer barrel will give you better muzzle velocity than a pistol and probably reduced flash as well. The SUB-2000 has $400 MSRP, although Kel Tec products are sometimes hard to find in stock.
Handgunning does take lots of practice to become proficient, unless you have good one-on-one instruction to correct your bad habbits. The good thing is dry-firing is probably the best self instruction you can have, as well as cheap. When the hammer falls on the firing pin, there's no recoil to distract you, you either know your sights were on target or they weren't, if not, do it until your aim is true.
http://www.gunlistings.org/florida-gun-classifieds/pistols
Check out this site, there are guns listed that will get the job done for the price range you're looking at and at a reasonable driving distance.
Check out this site, there are guns listed that will get the job done for the price range you're looking at and at a reasonable driving distance.
FourteenMiles
Member
The Draco pistol is what it is because of laws. No one thought "Hmm, I want to design an effective small arm." and came up with the Draco pistol. They designed it to sell as a range toy to the American civilian consumer. It has serious drawbacks in its design and use in order to be able to sell legally in the American market. With some effort, money, and time, it can be a serious weapon, but without that it is basically just a toy.
If you want a small and light rifle there are plenty to choose from. 16" AR-15 (probably beyond your budget), Kel-Tec SU-16, Kel-Tec SUB 20000, M1 Carbine, and the Hi-Point Carbine to name a few. There are also plenty of handguns that you should find usable, and that fall into your budget. I would also look at a 12 or 20 gauge pump action shotgun at your price point, maybe with a youth stock depending on your size.
Just remember a gun is not everything. Even with a great set of tools, a novice can not build a house. Just recently there was a video floating around of a man with a kitchen knife attacking and killing police officers armed with AK-47s. I believe he killed two of them and injured a few more before they were able to stop him. I hope this story illustrates how irrelevant the firearm you choose can be.
If you want a small and light rifle there are plenty to choose from. 16" AR-15 (probably beyond your budget), Kel-Tec SU-16, Kel-Tec SUB 20000, M1 Carbine, and the Hi-Point Carbine to name a few. There are also plenty of handguns that you should find usable, and that fall into your budget. I would also look at a 12 or 20 gauge pump action shotgun at your price point, maybe with a youth stock depending on your size.
Just remember a gun is not everything. Even with a great set of tools, a novice can not build a house. Just recently there was a video floating around of a man with a kitchen knife attacking and killing police officers armed with AK-47s. I believe he killed two of them and injured a few more before they were able to stop him. I hope this story illustrates how irrelevant the firearm you choose can be.
The closest place to me is Shoot straight , the cheapest carbine that uses pistol ammo is the high point 9mm carbine for $299 it looks pretty cool i could invest the rest of money into optics , unless theres an issue with it? urban area i believe its less than 50 ft from my house to the next.
The lgs only has them in .45 would that work? im still worried about over penetration of course but im slightly afraid of sd with a pistol cartridge , my friend talks about how awesome the ar is and i know they aren't too heavy but they are so over priced. But, im starting to think this pistol carbine would be a good idea for me light yet long enough for me to aim and fire effectively.
ARs won't penetrate as much as most rifle calibers, especially if you use the 55gr bullets, but penetration may still be a concern. Realistically, it's always a concern if you live close to others. I'd take it into consideration, but don't compromise on weapon effectiveness for the one-in-a-million scenario where you might shoot an innocent person through a wall. Overpenetration is a possibility even with a shotgun. That said, rifles aren't necessary for the close ranges you'd need to defend yourself in/near your home. Many people use a .45 ACP for HD and I think you'd be perfectly fine with a carbine in that caliber.
Gunnutery is right in that, at least in Wisconsin, you may be asked "pistol or rifle" when buying handgun-caliber ammo and age 21 is required if it's for a pistol. Ironically this applies even to .22LR. You might want to try buying a box of .45 at a local store before investing in the carbine, unless you know someone aged 21+ that is willing to buy ammo for you. You could also try ordering ammo online.
Gunnutery is right in that, at least in Wisconsin, you may be asked "pistol or rifle" when buying handgun-caliber ammo and age 21 is required if it's for a pistol. Ironically this applies even to .22LR. You might want to try buying a box of .45 at a local store before investing in the carbine, unless you know someone aged 21+ that is willing to buy ammo for you. You could also try ordering ammo online.
RobGR
Member
Honestly, a short shotgun is would be perfect.
I have a Draco, limited to 10 rnd mags in CA, and that is relatively heavy compared to my SGL 31 rifle. Additionally, the 7.62x39 caliber is not wise in a dense urban environment as there is concern for the safety of others in close proximity, but that has been discussed.
I say a shotty, maybe a mossberg 500 6 shot cruiser with a pistol grip -
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/NEW/50450.jpg
But it sounds like a stock would be preferable due to recoil. 20" (brl) 8 shot -
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/NEW/50577.jpg
For home security, a shotty.
I have a Draco, limited to 10 rnd mags in CA, and that is relatively heavy compared to my SGL 31 rifle. Additionally, the 7.62x39 caliber is not wise in a dense urban environment as there is concern for the safety of others in close proximity, but that has been discussed.
I say a shotty, maybe a mossberg 500 6 shot cruiser with a pistol grip -
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/NEW/50450.jpg
But it sounds like a stock would be preferable due to recoil. 20" (brl) 8 shot -
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/NEW/50577.jpg
For home security, a shotty.
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