Drills and competency

[GEM]

Usually on gun media, we like to talk about the guns. Should I use a Glocatto, with 385 magnum rounds at 2000 FPS? However, the skills it takes and competency are important. We know that most folks who carry guns have minimal training beyond a state CCW course or shooting at a rock or square range. Over 90% of carriers don't train. Across the country, it's estimated about 18000 folks take advanced training and maybe 10000 compete in the shooting sports. Trainers mention that in their advance courses, they see the same folks over and over. In any case, having objective standards seems to be important and a developing trend. Folks like Claude Werner, Tom Givens, Greg Ellifritz and others have published some prime info. In that group, my good friends Karl Rehn and John Daub have put together a set of excellent standards. They are discussed at:

www.krtraining.com and Karl's blog (link there). Here's a discussion of John's new book. I'm going to highlight one interesting bit (among many).

An update to John Daub's eBook "Drills, Qualifications, Standards, & Tests" – including the Minimum Competency Assessment – is available for download from the KR Training website.

In 2013 John published his original work on Minimum Competency for Defensive Pistol. At TacCon22 he lead a discussion on the topic of Minimum Competency. There he presented his original work along with his recent thinking on the topic. He introduced a Minimum Competency Assessment as an attempt to quantify his evolving thinking. For example, while "multiple hits" remains in the definition, he now believes the draw-to-first-acceptable-hit (DTFAH) skill needs to be emphasized. In this update to DQS&T, John presents the Assessment and his thinking behind every bit of it: target selection, par times, distances, equipment, biases, uncertainties, etc. Give it a read and join John's exploration of this topic.

The update contains over 100 pages of content and drills, adding the 3456 Drill, Snub Assessment, Hip to be Square, and The Common Tater Drill. Old favorites like the 2019 FBI Qual, Three Seconds or Less, and a plethora of Rangemaster stuff are included as well.

Copies of the eBook are available for FREE download at the KRTraining.com website

IMHO, these exercises and tests are as important as what is the latest iteration of a standard platform or round. Those skills, appreciation of the legal principles and FOF - that's the package. I grant you that expensive at times. But reading and setting up tests can be done.

 

[Kleanbore]

Excellent.

I leaned to shoot many years ago--but my skills did not include defensive shooting. I leaned some very basic things about the legal principles in my carry class.

I heve come to believe that shooting skills without some legal knowledge can be useless, and that learning what to look for to prevent amush is as important as the other two.

 

[WrongHanded]

The DTFAH concept is very intriguing. I wonder why guys like Elmer Keith and Bill Jordan never thought of that. (Yes that was sarcasm)

It's almost amazing to me that it's taken this long to come back around to this concept.

 

[TarDevil]

Great topic.
May I suggest a sticky to post reputable training facilities by region?

 

[Craig_AR]

May I suggest a sticky to post reputable training facilities by region?

In general that will just get you what folks know about their local trainers.
To supplement those, I recommend following the major national trainers like Tom Givens, John Murphy, Greg Ellifritz, Brian Hill, et cetera, and note who hosts them as they train around the country. Instructors who bring top level instructors like those tend to be on top of their games, too.

 

[Old Dog]

@GEM, thanks for the info.

Going to Wal-Mart now for more printer ink cartridges...

 

[Wolfshead]

In general that will just get you what folks know about their local trainers.
To supplement those, I recommend following the major national trainers like Tom Givens, John Murphy, Greg Ellifritz, Brian Hill, et cetera, and note who hosts them as they train around the country. Instructors who bring top level instructors like those tend to be on top of their games, too.

My current situation (and could possibly be the same for many) is financing training.
I find it very expensive to get training.
This I feel may be a reason why more don’t get the necessary training they need or even would like.
I live in NY and it is not all that appealing for Trainers to have courses here and if they are here, it is not easy to find info on them.
That leads to having to travel to take courses which adds to the cost….

I love the idea of a sticky that lists area training courses, local and National.
Also maybe a rating of them as well.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

The DTFAH sounds like a Bill Drill. Am I wrong?

I am pretty set in my ways as far as drills/comps but am always open to new techniques.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

My current situation (and could possibly be the same for many) is financing training.
I find it very expensive to get training.
This I feel may be a reason why more don’t get the necessary training they need or even would like.
I live in NY and it is not all that appealing for Trainers to have courses here and if they are here, it is not easy to find info on them.
That leads to having to travel to take courses which adds to the cost….

I love the idea of a sticky that lists area training courses, local and National.
Also maybe a rating of them as well.

You're not alone.

Its not just paying to take a course its the ammo thats needed. And not just for that one course, but to be able to continue honing skills after the course. Shooting is most certainly a perishable skill. I'm a huge proponent of dry drills but that only goes so far.

Shooting in general is becoming a wealthy persons hobby/sport, which is why I've had to massively cut back.

 

[Old Dog]

Shooting in general is becoming a wealthy persons hobby/sport, which is why I've had to massively cut back.

Well, since this thread is in ST&T, I don't want to take it too off-track, but I kinda disagree. First, if you don't reload (or if you do and were caught by surprise by the "shortages"), I'm still puzzled that so many didn't stock up on ammo much earlier, as all the signs were there - it's just a matter of priorities in my mind (I mean I know guys who were making $750/month truck payments or spending $300/month on cigarettes but wouldn't pick up a couple boxes of 9mm or .45 every payday when it was still reasonably priced -- BEFORE the last couple elections).

Bottom line for me is, what's the priority now? I still see folks paying exorbitant prices for booze, smokes, eating out, vehicle payments but cheaping out on their firearms and ammo... Ammo is back in stock at the retailers and on-line, yeah, prices are, in many cases, almost double what they should be, but again, what's the priority now? Earlier tonight I was talking to a guy I used to work with, we were talking about food, he 'fessed up to eating at McDonald's for dinner several times a week (he's single)... Really? $15 for a quarter-pounder, fries and small shake? And he was bitching about ammo prices.

At any rate, I get that there's folks on fixed incomes who can't afford Gunsite or Thunder Ranch, but there's often local alternatives, weeknight or weekend classes in one's area.

There's also ways to practice that do not involve continued expenditures of money for ammunition. Plenty of really practical training aids for shooting you can use in your own living room now. Yeah, there might be an initial expenditure, but you'd save in the long run.

Anyway, at this point in time, I don't consider shooting in general a hobby or sport -- I consider it necessary practice for continued survival. I guess what I'm saying is, if it's important to you, you'll find a way.

As far as area training classes: if you live in the PNW, I highly recommend the Firearms Academy of Seattle (FAS), Onalaska, WA (near Chehalis, I-5 corridor) and Massad Ayoob will be here this summer... If you're anywhere on the West Coast and mobile, Thunder Ranch, of course.

 

[FL-NC]

Realistic training with repetitious drills is the secret sauce to proficiency. Guns like my M&P 22 and S&W AR in 22 are MVP's for this training as of late.

 

[luzyfuerza]

What a great collection of drills, tests, and qualifications! It should be in the library of everyone who is a serious student of the handgun used for self-defense.

And the cost? Providing your e-mail address? We can all afford that.

 

[Hangingrock]

I have a mixture of commercial ammunition and components for reloading. My shooting sessions are not as frequent as they once were and the number of rounds fired is less than previously fired during practice. Its just the way it is in the new normal. At some point things may return to normal. When that will be I do not know.

 

[shafter]

Great topic.
May I suggest a sticky to post reputable training facilities by region?

It's a good idea. There are a lot of superb trainers out there and they often travel for classes. They aren't cheap but they're worth every penny and oddly enough their names hardly ever come up on the forums.

They often have awesome Youtube content as well although I like to emphasize that although it's a great supplement to real world training it doesn't replace it.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Karl and John remind us that a fast Draw-to-First-Acceptable-Hit (DTFAH) is fundamental for defenders who carry handguns. A fast DTFAH helps defenders seize the initiative, and the good grip, stance, sight picture/alignment, trigger discipline, etc., necessary for a good DTFAH forms the basis of everything else the defender does later.

So, I took my XD45 practice gun (4" full size) carried in a carry-suitable kydex OWB holster out to the range last night for a few iterations of "beep-to-bang". This gun/holster combination is a close match to my XD45C carry gun and holster.

I shot everything from seven yards. I know that I will miss from this distance if I try to go too fast and don't properly see and align my sights. Target was a 9" paper plate. 230-grain practice ammo. No concealment garment. No movement.

I started with a little practice
With arms to the side.
Average time: 1.38 seconds
Hits to total shots: 14 of 18
With arms in the fence position.
Average time: 1.46 seconds
Hits to total shots: 10 of 13
With hands in "fig leaf" position.
Average time: 1.47 seconds
Hits to total shots: 12 of 13
With hand on the butt of the gun.
Average time: 1.17 seconds
Hits to total shots: 11 of 13

And then moved on to a little testing
With arms to the side.
Average time: 1.34 seconds
Hits to total shots: 5 of 5
With arms in the fence position.
Average time: 1.45 seconds
Hits to total shots: 4 of 5
With hands in "fig leaf" position.
Average time: 1.35 seconds
Hits to total shots: 3 of 5
With hand on the butt of the gun.
Average time: 1.08 seconds
Hits to total shots: 3 of 5

Only one of the 77 rounds fired was more than about an inch off the plate. But a miss is a miss.

Lessons Learned:

1) I am not a particularly fast or accurate shooter. My times and targets prove this.
2) Times on the five-round testing improved as a result of the live-fire practice. But accuracy, in general, was worse.
3) Dry practice bores me. But I clearly need more dry draws and trigger presses from all four starting positions if I'm going to improve.
4) I need to focus on sight alignment/picture more in the dry practice I do.

After a couple weeks of more intense dry practice, I'll retest and see what a difference it made.

 

[JohnKSa]

The nice thing about practicing DTFAH is that since it doesn't involve recoil, it can be practiced without live ammunition. Using just plain dry-fire can achieve really good results, but there are also training systems out there like the MantisX that will provide feedback on accuracy and measure reaction time automatically.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Well, since this thread is in ST&T, I don't want to take it too off-track, but I kinda disagree. First, if you don't reload (or if you do and were caught by surprise by the "shortages"), I'm still puzzled that so many didn't stock up on ammo much earlier, as all the signs were there - it's just a matter of priorities in my mind (I mean I know guys who were making $750/month truck payments or spending $300/month on cigarettes but wouldn't pick up a couple boxes of 9mm or .45 every payday when it was still reasonably priced -- BEFORE the last couple elections).

Bottom line for me is, what's the priority now? I still see folks paying exorbitant prices for booze, smokes, eating out, vehicle payments but cheaping out on their firearms and ammo... Ammo is back in stock at the retailers and on-line, yeah, prices are, in many cases, almost double what they should be, but again, what's the priority now? Earlier tonight I was talking to a guy I used to work with, we were talking about food, he 'fessed up to eating at McDonald's for dinner several times a week (he's single)... Really? $15 for a quarter-pounder, fries and small shake? And he was bitching about ammo prices.

At any rate, I get that there's folks on fixed incomes who can't afford Gunsite or Thunder Ranch, but there's often local alternatives, weeknight or weekend classes in one's area.

There's also ways to practice that do not involve continued expenditures of money for ammunition. Plenty of really practical training aids for shooting you can use in your own living room now. Yeah, there might be an initial expenditure, but you'd save in the long run.

Anyway, at this point in time, I don't consider shooting in general a hobby or sport -- I consider it necessary practice for continued survival. I guess what I'm saying is, if it's important to you, you'll find a way.

As far as area training classes: if you live in the PNW, I highly recommend the Firearms Academy of Seattle (FAS), Onalaska, WA (near Chehalis, I-5 corridor) and Massad Ayoob will be here this summer... If you're anywhere on the West Coast and mobile, Thunder Ranch, of course.

So this guy responded to me and is taking the conversation in the direction he chose. No mod has said anything so I'm going to respond.

You start off with reloading. Reloading has always been a hobby, not a mass money saving technique. And in these days of scarcity even your reloading components aren't readily available.

As for as priorities you have some nerve. You have no idea what anyone's situation is on this forum. And to make assumptions is asinine.

For me personally, I have a decent stockpile but I can't replace it right now. I'm not a novice shooter so I focuse on dry drills.

You're big headed to assume so much with a broad stroke. How about new shooters? There are always new shooters.


ETA- I have cut back in just about everything as far as expenses go. I still can't replace my stash as I would like.

 

[Kleanbore]

You start off with reloading. Reloading has always been a hobby, not a mass money saving technique.

Eh?

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Eh?

What part of that statement do you have a problem with?

 

[Kleanbore]

What part of that statement do you have a problem with?

The part I quoted.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

The part I quoted.

Well its a fact so I'm not sure what more you're looking for response wise.

 

[Kleanbore]

Well its a fact so I'm not sure what more you're looking for response wise.

I have know people who reload to save money, to improve accuracy in rifles, to reduce recoils, and to produce ammunition that is difficult to obtain, but I have never known anyone who did so as a "hobby".

Where did you get your idea of such a "fact"?

 

[fastbolt]

If you look at the use of a handgun as a dedicated defensive weapon, applying some of the thinking involved in the training and practice of martial arts to use for self defense might prove helpful. Starting off under the eyes of an experienced trainer can help point you in the right direction, and hopefully also show you how to learn to avoid falling into bad habits when practicing on your own. Learning what you don't know can be handy.

 

[Kleanbore]

Learning what you don't know can be handy.

You can say that again.