Drinking & competitive shooting performance edge?...

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Rembrandt

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Found this article while cruising around....I'm no advocate for alcohol and guns, but it's interesting how other countries view this.

http://www.gun-tests.com/pdfs/1-2-alcoholperformance.pdf

"Alcohol And Shooting Performance"

Shooters in the United States have
been trained to avoid alcohol when
practicing for a big meet, and the social
pressures to avoid drinking at the range
are intense. In fact, most ranges in this
country forbid alcohol consumption on
their premises at any time.
However, that wasn’t the case at the
Winnsboro Gun Club’s private facility.
After the line was called safe for the day
and everyone’s gun was cased and put
away, kegs in a Budweiser trailer were
tapped, and the suds flowed. Still, such
an arrangement would be considered
restrictive in Mexico, where the game of
silhuetas metalicas originated, and
where observers and some shooters
drink around—and on—the field of play.
Antonio Barriga, a 64-year-old resident
of San Luis Potosi, Mexico, won
the high senior award in the smallbore
rifle silo championship with a three-day total of 90. He said he didn’t think drinking
was a safety factor in shooting as much as it was a performance factor.
“In Mexico, as well as many of the European countries such as Germany, drinking
is part of the social aspect of shooting,” Barriga said. “I think people in your
country don’t allow drinking because it can give some shooters an edge, not because
of safety.”
Barriga’s opinion runs counter to most training dogma in the U.S., which says
that alcohol interferes with reaction time and depth perception. He also qualifies his
stance by saying that alcohol might not help shooters in the Olympic events, where
a great deal of precision is required.
“But for silhouette, alcohol is not bad,” Barriga said. “I would say that 60 percent
of the shooters in Mexico drink before or during a match, and it helps them stay
calm and shoot better. The other 40 percent are dangerous with alcohol, and they
don’t drink. But Mexican shooters know who is who.” He says he personally knows
certain shooters who have won major championships in Mexico under the influence.
“When I was younger, I was a much better shooter when I drank something
before a match,” the 32-year silo veteran said. “But one of the problems is that you
must drink more as time goes on to get the same effect. At some point, it is too
much. Because I am older, I don’t drink anything now.”
 
That sounds like the logic that pot smokers use, having heard that before over the years. They think they are actually doing whatever it is at the time, "better," when they are stoned. The fact is that they are impaired and are the only ones who feel that way. Asking a chemically impaired person what they think about anything is the first mistake.
 
The extreme anti-alcohol bias so common in the USA is baffling...but, sadly, I don't see it going away in any of our lifetimes. :(

Get a sense of proportion.
 
I tend to agree with Mr. Barriga. While it is true that alcohol in excess can be dangerous in lots of ways, it is a depressant, and in proper "dosages" could absolutely be useful to a competitior by relaxing them (both mentally and physically) during competition.

Unfortunately, he's also correct in that it's the attitude we have regarding alcohol and competition is a cultural one, and therefore extremely hard to change.
 
kingpin008: ....While it is true that alcohol in excess can be dangerous in lots of ways, it is a depressant, and in proper "dosages" could absolutely be useful to a competitior by relaxing them (both mentally and physically) during competition.

Years ago, I went to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs for a soccer coaching seminar. They gave us the typical goody bag of t-shirts, ball caps, magazines, stickers, etc. Also included was a copy of the "Athletes Drug Book" (this was prior to the US AntiDoping Agency).

The book outlined what substances were banned outright and what was banned for specific sports. In addition it detailed what levels of drugs or substances were allowed during competition. It also gave the reason why that substance or drug was banned or restricted.

I do remember alcohol being restricted for shooting and archery. (but not for soccer coaches :D )

I couldn't find it on the USOC website, but Google worked wonders:

From the `World Anti Doping Agency
http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/2010_Prohibited_List_FINAL_EN_Web.pdf
SUBSTANCES PROHIBITED IN PARTICULAR
SPORTS
P1. ALCOHOL
Alcohol (ethanol) is prohibited In-Competition only, in the following sports.
Detection will be conducted by analysis of breath and/or blood. The doping
violation threshold (haematological values) is 0.10 g/L.
 Aeronautic (FAI)
 Archery (FITA)
 Automobile (FIA)
 Karate (WKF)
 Modern Pentathlon (UIPM) for
disciplines involving shooting
 Motorcycling (FIM)
 Ninepin and Tenpin Bowling
 
This has been tried in the US. I've heard of several gun clubs or shooting teams testing out the theory. (I'll try to do a search -- I know I've read of it here on THR.)

The shooters' scores generally improved mildly after a drink or two and then began to degrade at higher BACs.

I'd say that's pretty much to be expected. It isn't a matter of "beer goggles" telling you that you're Superman when you're really all over the paper. It's a matter of producing a slight suppressive effect which may stabilize muscles, help the shooter reduce mental "noise" and focus on the task at hand.

It is important to acknowledge that for the average person, a very mild state of intoxication does not induce massive degradation of motor skills, egregious lapses in judgment, nor catastrophic mood swings. For the purposes of real life, "Impairment doesn't begin with the first drink."

(Every one of the tests of which I have read were performed under TIGHTLY controlled circumstances, with doubled safety measures taken.)

An interesting, and in some ways very valuable, experiment, but certainly not something I'd advocate or participate in as a general rule, though.

-Sam
 
i dont see a problem with drinking at the gun club....AFTER ALL GUNS ARE CASED AND LOCKED UP. but drinking while shooting is a big no no drinking when there is access to a gun is a big no no. as long as they practice moderation after shooting i see no problem

its no different than going to the range and drinking a few when you get home.
 
I guess that means to steer clear of anybody at the range singing loudly and off-key "I Shot The Sheriff".
 
I don't fear mixing alcohol and guns as long as moderation is maintained, we've always got guns at BBQ's at the deer lease, and there's normally a impromptu long range handgun shoot at the gong across the pond. I've also driven around the farm while sipping on a beer. However, I've also removed myself from certain situations where firearms where brought out well after moderation was forgotten. I'll put my flame suit on now...
 
Though not directly firearms related, I have a story that relates to the topic.

I minored in Geographic Information Systems (essentially, computer-aided mapping and data management). One of my instructors told the class of a student years ago, before computers were able to assist cartographers. This particular student suffered from moderate tremors in his hands, making it impossible for him to hand-draw the maps required for the course. He knew all the material inside and out, just couldn't physically draw maps. The instructor and student discussed it and the student ended up doing quite well in suppressing the tremors after having a beer or two. Eventually he decided it was difficult to keep up the drinking before class at 8:00 am but has gone on to a very successful career in GIS with the aid of computer software.

The bottom line is, small amounts of alcohol may be able to relax a person enough to slightly improve performance. And more does not equal better. Slight amounts of alchol for slight improvements. It isn't a black/white purely objective thing, it will vary from person to person.
 
Antonio Barriga was stripped of his gold medal Tuesday after failing an alcohol test after the match, blowing a .00%, well below the minimum allowable amount.
:)
 
Anyone who has ever gone bowling already knows the effect of alcohol on accuracy. Better by the second frame, a lot worse by the third or fourth. :D
 
Doping is doping. The reason so many people have a problem with alcohol is that it works to relieve stress. So much so that people can become unable to deal with stress without it. Stresss leads to tension, tension leads to tremmors, tremmors lead to bad groups. The science seems sound. If it works, it should be considered illegal doping for competition.
 
I'm not even a moderately good billiards player, but I've always perceived that I'm a little better after a couple drinks.

Personally I wouldn't test out the theory with guns, but it doesn't sound completely outside the realm of possibility to me.
 
The reason so many people have a problem with alcohol is that it works to relieve stress.

The reason so many people have a problem with alcohol has more to do with the puritanical history of US colonization. Temperance groups have been a constant problem in North America since the late 1700s.
 
My personal limit is one beer if I'm going to be shooting at any time later that day. I'm pretty sure I'm not impaired at all until 2 or 3, and that passes after an hour. I almost never drink before shooting; I'm just saying I don't disqualify myself until the 2nd beer.

I have had a beer and half a sandwich for supper 30 minutes before shooting Bullseye once or twice and it didn't seem to help or hurt my score (which is to be expected.) The amount of coffee I've had that day sometimes does have an effect though.
 
Seems like Askins mentioned in his autobiography that his Bullseye scores improved after a drink. I believe he had the team he coached "partake" before their matches.
 
Personally, I don't think anything that can so impair one's judgment should have anything to do with potentially dangerous activities such as shooting or driving (or any number of other activities). This has nothing to do with being puritanical, and everything to do with safety. Even if most people can handle moderate drinking just fine, I don't want to risk my life to find out who can't while they're holding a loaded gun. :uhoh:
 
I'm with Ed Ames on this issue.

Elmer Keith in talking about the Camp Perry matches in his prime years said that his position was, "If a drink or two settles you down a little, then take a drink or two."

Although a case of beer will last me from May through September, and that includes sharing with friends who come by, I have no problem with a responsible person having a drink or a beer or two while shooting. And don't tell me that a responsible person would never have a drink. I certainly prefer that to an irresponsible person who never touches a drop.
 
I'm willing to believe that a drop or two of alcohol can "steady the nerves." I'm also willing to believe that drinking in moderation while shooting isn't inherently dangerous.

But I agree with Manco on this one: You never know when you're going to run into that guy who isn't able to drink in moderation. And when the firearm is in his hands, things can go really bad really fast. So it's safer all around to wait until the guns are put away before starting to imbibe.

Just my opinion--I never thought I was a puritan, but maybe I am.
 
Many years ago, the notorious Col. Charles Askins wrote an article in the long defunct "Gunspoirt" magazine entitled "Demon Rum and the Shooting Man". He told tales of how he and many others (including whole teams) had shot and won championships with a few (or many) shots under their belts. It was amusing, like most of his articles were. That said, I favor zero tolerance when shooting. There is just too much at stake.

gary
 
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