Drop in 2 lb, 1911 trigger
- Thread starter Greg528iT
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Too hairy for me. I carry mine and would be very hesitant to mess with tolerances that tight. Having worked for the Govt, as a subcontractor, during Viet Nam, I know what a few thousandths of an inch can do. And I would be afraid of having any weapon that is so finelly tuned, even as a range gun.
I am by far no pro in the gun building dept. but have seen tolerances stop an entire assemblly line. I am happy with my 4 1/2-5 lb stock trigger, even though it sure could always be better, there is a point of diminishing returns, unless you are a top guy like Tuner is.
I am by far no pro in the gun building dept. but have seen tolerances stop an entire assemblly line. I am happy with my 4 1/2-5 lb stock trigger, even though it sure could always be better, there is a point of diminishing returns, unless you are a top guy like Tuner is.
Are you talking within this thread? The only thing I keep hearing over and over and over again. to the effect of, "not in my carry piece I wouldn't"
The way I learn is to be shown, ask questions. The only questions I'd re ask is if I'm not given evidence of it. Me.. I've shown pictures, diagrams. I'm an Engineer. I speak with pictures, dimensions. I fully understand tolerances and tolerance build up.
When I got my used Les Baer, the trigger pull was scary light. It measured at 1.75 lbs on my gauge. I didn't think you could even get them that light, but the gun passed all the safety tests. I put in a new sear spring and it brought it right up to 3.5lbs and its much more comfortable in terms of safety in my mind. Just a range-only gun tho.
Canuck-IL That's the exact video that was previously linked to.
tuj I expect, my sear spring's left tab will get pushed in or I just use a Wilson bullet proof sear spring in the end. This was an exercise in what quality parts can achieve. I've read a couple places where the 19# main spring is as light as you want to go and still achieve guaranteed primer firing. I also have a 21# and the original 23#.
No, I was referring to the overall 1911 platform, and the literally hundreds of threads that have been posted over the years since this forum started. This ones about ultra-light trigger pulls, and I remember one thread that was long, detailed, and illustrated. I have no interest (nor time) to reinvent the wheel.
"Tuner," for one has spent uncounted hours and written thousands of words explaining the finite details of how and why the machine works. I did much the same until I got burned out on the subject and switched to something else.
Since you are an engineer I'll relate an interesting incident. During the years when what would become the 1911 .45 pistol was under development, an army officer introduced John Browning to someone and called him an engineer. Browning took exception to this and said, "Sir! I am not an engineer, I an a mechanic!" (No offence intended
).Anyway, do you have a copy of The Colt .45 Automatic - A Shop Manual, by Jerry Kuhnhausen? If no, get one. www.amazon.com, and www.brownells.com have them. From that book you should learn how the whole system works, and how the trigger system/pull fits into a larger overall picture. You’ll also find out why what you’re doing isn’t recommended.
How about a full set of drawings for the pistol and every part in it? No? Then go to www.nicolausassociates.com
Before you started this project did you use extended pins and a dial indicator to be sure the pin holes were drilled straight? Are you now using Dykem layout dye on the sear and hammer hook engagement surfaces to insure full and even contact? If you are using a lighted hammer spring do you understand that this can have a negative affect on the recoil system?
Apparently lacking previous experience, do you think that starting out by trying to set up a trigger pull that's way below the manufacturer's limit is a good idea?
I could go on and on, but how many times am I obligated to do so? The same applies to Tuner.
The only reason I got involved in this thread is that it appeared that you had given no consideration to what compromising the manual safety could do, nor did you understand that the margin of error that could lead to double-fires, or runaway automatic firing had been reached and probably passed. I really don't want you or anyone else to get hurt. Tuner hinted at this in his post, but apparently you didn't take the hint. Now I'm going to drop it like a brick, and then this grumpy old man is going to withdraw and go away. :banghead:
Hint: Never bring up this subject before he’s gotten through his first mug of morning coffee.
Jim Watson
Member
The wisdom of a hair trigger 1911 aside, I have recently seen several posts here and there about action pin hole placement errors in commercial copies.
It would be interesting to take some careful measurements off of Genuine US Army Issue pistols to see how close Colt and contractors adhered to specifications in The Good Old Days. (I recall reading about interchangeability campaigns at times during the run of production, 1911 - 1945.)
It would be interesting to take some careful measurements off of Genuine US Army Issue pistols to see how close Colt and contractors adhered to specifications in The Good Old Days. (I recall reading about interchangeability campaigns at times during the run of production, 1911 - 1945.)
and you joined the fray, WHY?
This is true more times than I like to see. I work with more Engineers that I wouldn't let change my oil in my car, than I car to. There are those that I can get into a fully detailed discussion as to the properties of a hardened tool steel vs common steel vs cast etc.
I do. Most have been updated from the original blue prints, which the only copies I've seen are illegible for the smaller detail. Why I have asked others to show me the original hammer prints showing the 89 deg hook angle. I've still not heard from them.
yes. I've also measure and provided detail information as to how Springfield appears to be spacing their pins farther apart, started a whole new thread to gather more information as to other Springfield pin locations. I've 3d modeled the pin spacing and given diagrams as to what this pin position effect has on the interface. I have shown a picture of how accurate the out of package sear is. I didn't post pictures of the parts removed from the pistol after several dry fires showing contact patches. If you want those I can provide them. At this point I am trying to get a picture of the preferred break / release angle. I've shown pictures of how a straight 45 deg chamfer just getting larger does not help.
I don't remember saying how many trigger jobs I've done or not done. If you are talking manufacturers limits are you referring to how 1911s came off the assembly line back in 1911? Then anything under 7-10 lbs is a NO NO.
you are not. so don't
Hint: DON'T start your computer before you gotten through your first mug of coffee
Jim Watson
Member
Chuck Warner is offering a "True Radius" sear with the tip curved instead of flat/beveled.
http://warnerpistols.com/_____NEW_____.html
Pity he doesn't show a picture of the actual product and what he considers proper engagement.
What do you here think of the idea?
(I am not a gunsmith but I have contributed to the lavish lifestyle of several.)
That is exactly the jig my buddy made shown in post #23.
The only issue with it is.. if the sear is already shorter than it is in the radius you won't be able to re shape a worn sear.
If you always started with a NEW sear that was out of tolerance long the jig would work sweet.
The Ed Brown sear jig shown in Brownells and Midway allows for sears to be shorter than spec. Put a .020" shim under the far end, and the sear face will sit on the stone. (Well unless it's .020" short, but then it's going in the garbage.
He also does not show the break away angle. The EGW sear has about an .008 45 deg chamfer. Tuner has mentioned using a different angle but I don't know if he means from the face or the side.
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Claude Clay
Member
my Kimber Custom Stainless Gold Match from 1998 came from the factory amazingly as described: 1.5" at 25 yards with a 'like glass' 2.25 LB trigger. so to did my s&w M41; M60/5" 357; Sig Trailside; Colt Defender was also excellent though its trigger was 3.5; and a Dan Wesson 14-V 357 Pistol Pac
there have been others but the point being that if you stay at it long enough, you will experience periods of ultra good and the flip side of that coin--Colt Pocket 9, Pony Pocketlight, Mustang,COP 357, Detonics 9
triggers below 4.5 pounds can cost more to defend in court. i see this as a money pit rather than a competency--he ment to shoot him vs the light trigger fired cause he was 'jumpy'. i switched from my defender to a p239/40 DA/SA cause of this. a shooting buddy who is licensed to practice in CT casually mentioned to me that all things being equal. it would cost me $10-15K more to defend a SA than a SA/DA or SAO.
another point is to have all work ( even a spring change) done by a licensed professional (even the guy who sold it to you at the gun store)
and keep all receipts/works orders.
there have been others but the point being that if you stay at it long enough, you will experience periods of ultra good and the flip side of that coin--Colt Pocket 9, Pony Pocketlight, Mustang,COP 357, Detonics 9
triggers below 4.5 pounds can cost more to defend in court. i see this as a money pit rather than a competency--he ment to shoot him vs the light trigger fired cause he was 'jumpy'. i switched from my defender to a p239/40 DA/SA cause of this. a shooting buddy who is licensed to practice in CT casually mentioned to me that all things being equal. it would cost me $10-15K more to defend a SA than a SA/DA or SAO.
another point is to have all work ( even a spring change) done by a licensed professional (even the guy who sold it to you at the gun store)
and keep all receipts/works orders.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=132013&highlight=sear
This is a 2003 thread, and apparently the photographs weren't saved. But have fun anyway.
This is a 2003 thread, and apparently the photographs weren't saved. But have fun anyway.
I've read that thread and a few more. I actually saved some of those hammer pictures on my work computer. It was those pictures, that I had in mind when I bought the Wilson sear, and why I checked the hooks with a square lathe tool. Why I also checked squareness etc. The only thing I might have changed in this experiment was to get a hammer with .023" hooks. Being they are hardened tool steel I'm less worried wear.
The sear as pictured is square and the face is well over Tuner's recommended face to break angle ratio.
It was quotes like this from Tuner that made me feel safe in posting the results of my experiment.
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