bergmen
Member.
I've never seen anything from S&W that mentions dry firing, whether it is okay or not. None of my owners manuals mention it at all. Do you have reference to any official statement from S&W that advises this?
Dan
Dry fire a revolver?
- Thread starter colorado_handgunner
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I've never seen anything from S&W that mentions dry firing, whether it is okay or not. None of my owners manuals mention it at all. Do you have reference to any official statement from S&W that advises this?
Dan
SwampWolf
Member
The manual for a Taurus revolver I have warns against dry-firing it. I find snap caps to be cheap enough that I use them when dry-firing any handgun-why take chances if you don't need to?
cleardiddion
Member
For which model does the manual say that? I flipped through mine for my 856 and I didn't catch anything about not dry-firing.
SwampWolf
Member
Model 415. Quoting from the Taurus manual: "Dry firing is bad for this gun, whether the hammer block is engaged or not."
just for fun
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- May 11, 2007
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- 181
It's just in the past few years I found out that your not supposed to dry fire the older Smiths with the hammer mounted firing pin! After doing it over 30 yrs. I guess I'd better stop! Don't want to break anything at this point! Changing it out would be child's play. Finding one (since Smith sold all their NOS) would be the hard part!
That's probably because the hammer block in a Taurus is so cheeseball that dry firing probably WOULD damage the hammer block and then some fool would accidently shoot himself and sue Taurus. Seriously, I like Taurus revolvers. I worked in a shop that sold lots of them right alongside S&Ws that were outside of a lot of customer's spending range. We had very few of them returned as defective but the lockwork was kind of crudely made and used thinner stock for parts than a S&W. But for the money if you just want a self defense revolver they fill the bill. If you're wanting to take it to the range and blow 500 rounds through it every week then you will be extremely disappointed. I put them in the same category as Charter Arms. Just for fun, I am curious as to WHO told you that it's bad to dry fire a S&W with a hammer mounted firing pin? In those guns the firing pin does not strike anything if no cartridge is present. The hammer simply hits the frame and the pin doesn't touch anything.
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Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
You know the old saying it's not the fall that hurts, it's the short stop at the end?
It's the same story with firing pins.
I used to work for a company that made tiny electronic components. We tested them for vibration. Vibration is expressed in Gs, the same way gravity is. One of the old engineers told me one day that when an object is dropped onto a hard floor, the deceleration (the opposite of acceleration) forces approach infinity. That's why stuff breaks when you drop it on the floor. But if the blow is cushioned by something, the deceleration is much more survivable. It is also true that the smaller the component, the more Gs it can take. Remember those pictures of the astronauts being tested at 10 Gs or so? Tiny mechanical components can survive Gs in the hundreds or even thousands. But they usually don't survive infinite Gs.
Let's look at a Colt firing pin for a moment.
When the hammer slams to a stop on the frame, it is like dropping it onto concrete. Deceleration is way up in the thousands of Gs. Sorry, it's a little bit out of focus, but see that little tiny tip at the end? When the hammer slams to a stop against the frame, the firing pin wants to keep right on going. The only thing holding it in place is the tiny rivet that runs through it. If there is any invisible crack or tiny irregularity, it is right at the base of that tiny section that the tip will want to break off and keep right on going. This is a 2nd Gen Colt, but modern 3rd Gen Colts have a similar firing pin. First Gen Colts had a much more robust conical firing pin, but that is besides the point.
If the firing pin strikes a live primer or a snap cap, the deceleration forces on the tip of the pin get reduced dramatically. The tip is actually cushioned by the primer as it gets dented, slowing the firing pin down. For this reason, I never dry fire anything with a firing pin shaped like this unless there is something underneath, like a live primer or a snap cap to cushion it. Nope, spent primers in spent brass is no good. Within a few strikes, the primer takes on the shape of the firing pin tip and completely loses its ability to cushion the tip of the firing pin.
I don't drop the hammer with firing pins that look like this without something under the hammer for the same reason. That one in front is a little bit over 100 years old and I don't want to find out how much stress it can take. True, it is simple to replace a firing pin like this, but why take the risk?
I would never dream of dropping this hammer onto an empty chamber. That hammer is 130 years old, and the firing pin is integral to the hammer. If it breaks, there are no more replacement parts.
Rugers firing pins are a different story. They are not long and thin. Most of them are hockey puck shaped, with the actual pin protruding a bit from the hockey puck. That was part of Bill Ruger's genius, replacing old fashioned parts with modern engineered parts that were more robust. It says right in the manual of every Vaquero that there is no problem dry firing them.
Contrary to popular opinion, there is no problem dry firing some of the better made rimfire pistols. There is a small pin that sits across the bolt in a Ruger Mark I or Mark II pistol. This pin limits the travel of the firing pin. With this pin in place, the firing pin never touches the breech face of the barrel. It always stops a few thousandths short. In the owner's manual to my Ruger Mark II pistols it clearly says to be sure to replace the pin after field stripping the gun. The manual warns that forgetting to put the pin in can ruin the gun. But no problem if the pin is in there. Same with my Single Sixes. The firing pin never touches the cylinder. There is always a slight air gap, so the pin never strikes the cylinder.
I have a few K22s. I'll have to take a good look and see if the firing pin ever touches the cylinder. I'll bet not.
I did buy an old High Standard pistol a few years ago. It was over 50 years old, and there was evidence of firing pin strikes on the barrel. But it still fires all the ammo I put into it.
You know the old saying it's not the fall that hurts, it's the short stop at the end?
It's the same story with firing pins.
I used to work for a company that made tiny electronic components. We tested them for vibration. Vibration is expressed in Gs, the same way gravity is. One of the old engineers told me one day that when an object is dropped onto a hard floor, the deceleration (the opposite of acceleration) forces approach infinity. That's why stuff breaks when you drop it on the floor. But if the blow is cushioned by something, the deceleration is much more survivable. It is also true that the smaller the component, the more Gs it can take. Remember those pictures of the astronauts being tested at 10 Gs or so? Tiny mechanical components can survive Gs in the hundreds or even thousands. But they usually don't survive infinite Gs.
Let's look at a Colt firing pin for a moment.
When the hammer slams to a stop on the frame, it is like dropping it onto concrete. Deceleration is way up in the thousands of Gs. Sorry, it's a little bit out of focus, but see that little tiny tip at the end? When the hammer slams to a stop against the frame, the firing pin wants to keep right on going. The only thing holding it in place is the tiny rivet that runs through it. If there is any invisible crack or tiny irregularity, it is right at the base of that tiny section that the tip will want to break off and keep right on going. This is a 2nd Gen Colt, but modern 3rd Gen Colts have a similar firing pin. First Gen Colts had a much more robust conical firing pin, but that is besides the point.
If the firing pin strikes a live primer or a snap cap, the deceleration forces on the tip of the pin get reduced dramatically. The tip is actually cushioned by the primer as it gets dented, slowing the firing pin down. For this reason, I never dry fire anything with a firing pin shaped like this unless there is something underneath, like a live primer or a snap cap to cushion it. Nope, spent primers in spent brass is no good. Within a few strikes, the primer takes on the shape of the firing pin tip and completely loses its ability to cushion the tip of the firing pin.
I don't drop the hammer with firing pins that look like this without something under the hammer for the same reason. That one in front is a little bit over 100 years old and I don't want to find out how much stress it can take. True, it is simple to replace a firing pin like this, but why take the risk?
I would never dream of dropping this hammer onto an empty chamber. That hammer is 130 years old, and the firing pin is integral to the hammer. If it breaks, there are no more replacement parts.
Rugers firing pins are a different story. They are not long and thin. Most of them are hockey puck shaped, with the actual pin protruding a bit from the hockey puck. That was part of Bill Ruger's genius, replacing old fashioned parts with modern engineered parts that were more robust. It says right in the manual of every Vaquero that there is no problem dry firing them.
Contrary to popular opinion, there is no problem dry firing some of the better made rimfire pistols. There is a small pin that sits across the bolt in a Ruger Mark I or Mark II pistol. This pin limits the travel of the firing pin. With this pin in place, the firing pin never touches the breech face of the barrel. It always stops a few thousandths short. In the owner's manual to my Ruger Mark II pistols it clearly says to be sure to replace the pin after field stripping the gun. The manual warns that forgetting to put the pin in can ruin the gun. But no problem if the pin is in there. Same with my Single Sixes. The firing pin never touches the cylinder. There is always a slight air gap, so the pin never strikes the cylinder.
I have a few K22s. I'll have to take a good look and see if the firing pin ever touches the cylinder. I'll bet not.
I did buy an old High Standard pistol a few years ago. It was over 50 years old, and there was evidence of firing pin strikes on the barrel. But it still fires all the ammo I put into it.
Revolver218
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- Jul 7, 2011
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- 47
Check the S&W site and select FAQ. Scroll down to the first section where the question is "Can I dry fire.....". The answer is yes, except for .22's, which they list. I hope this clears up the subject, as far as S&W anyway.
Lawdawg45
Member
To semi-answer the question of the OP, back in the wheel gun era of law enforcement our department armorer recommended that with our new service revolvers, we take them home and "oil the heck out of them", place 6 spent cartridges in and fire away at the TV for a minimum of one hour. A practice I do to this day.
LD
LD
bergmen
Member.
Thanks! I see that they are clear about centerfire handguns. It would be a lot smarter IMO to have it specified in the owners manuals like Glock and Ruger do in theirs.
Dan
Confederate
Member
It's okay to dry fire most modern revolvers...even those with hammer-mounted firing pins. It's okay to dry fire Rugers.
It's NOT okay to dry fire .22s or any rimfire round. The firing pin comes too close to the edge of the recessed chambers. It may not hurt the firing pin, but it can chip away the edge of the chamber, thus lowering the gun's value.
On autos, again, avoid dry snapping .22s. And avoid dry firing cheap autos like the Raven, Davis and other guns. In many cases it's okay to dry snap the Davis because they don't work anyway...they're junk.
It's NOT okay to dry fire .22s or any rimfire round. The firing pin comes too close to the edge of the recessed chambers. It may not hurt the firing pin, but it can chip away the edge of the chamber, thus lowering the gun's value.
On autos, again, avoid dry snapping .22s. And avoid dry firing cheap autos like the Raven, Davis and other guns. In many cases it's okay to dry snap the Davis because they don't work anyway...they're junk.
From the S&W website:
Can I dry fire my S&W handgun?
Q: Can I dry fire my Smith & Wesson?
A: Yes, except for the .22 caliber pistols which includes models 22A, 22S, 422, 2206, 2214, 2213 and 41.
.22 caliber revolvers such as models 17, 43, 63, 317 and 617 also should not be dry fired.
Q: Why can't I dry fire my .22 pistol or revolver?
A: Dry firing a S&W .22 pistol or revolver will cause damage to the firing pin.
Can I dry fire my S&W handgun?
Q: Can I dry fire my Smith & Wesson?
A: Yes, except for the .22 caliber pistols which includes models 22A, 22S, 422, 2206, 2214, 2213 and 41.
.22 caliber revolvers such as models 17, 43, 63, 317 and 617 also should not be dry fired.
Q: Why can't I dry fire my .22 pistol or revolver?
A: Dry firing a S&W .22 pistol or revolver will cause damage to the firing pin.
Rugers website says this:
Can I dry fire my Ruger revolver?
Yes. All Ruger revolvers can be dry fired without damage, and dry firing can be useful to familiarize the owner with the firearm. However, be sure any firearm is completely unloaded before dry firing!
I imagine many other manufacturers have addressed this same issue...check their FAQ section.
Can I dry fire my Ruger revolver?
Yes. All Ruger revolvers can be dry fired without damage, and dry firing can be useful to familiarize the owner with the firearm. However, be sure any firearm is completely unloaded before dry firing!
I imagine many other manufacturers have addressed this same issue...check their FAQ section.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
That may be true with home made snap caps, but all commercial snap caps are made to look different than live ammunition. A-Zoom snap caps are made of aluminum and given a purple powder coat finish. If you use commercial snap caps it is pretty hard to confuse live ammunition with a snap cap.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/534209/a-zoom-action-proving-dummy-round-snap-cap-45-long-colt-aluminum-package-of-6
FIVETWOSEVEN
Member
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- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 5,146
I understand your concerns about the old revolvers but the modern ones are fine. There are a few posters in here that have experience dry firing them for decades without a problem.
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gamestalker
member
I've been dry firing my revolver's for over 40 yrs. and have yet to break a FP or have any other problems. Even the hammer mounted FP's have not had problems.
The only exception for me is a rim fire, revolver or other wise, I won't dry fire them even one time. I worked in a gun shop for quite a while, and one of the most common problems I recall seeing, was broken FP's on rim fire handgun's and rifle's.
GS
The only exception for me is a rim fire, revolver or other wise, I won't dry fire them even one time. I worked in a gun shop for quite a while, and one of the most common problems I recall seeing, was broken FP's on rim fire handgun's and rifle's.
GS
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