Dry firing a cap and ball revolver

[Pancho]

Some time ago there was a thread about whether or not to dry fire a C&B pistol. The question was never really resolved for all makes of guns. Well, I think I've got an answer. The forum has also talked about those do it yourself cap tools were you make caps out of beverage cans and fill them with toygun caps. What if you just made the caps without the igniter and used them like snapcap bullets?

 

[Macmac]

Wouldn't commom fish tank air tubing work as well, be faster and need less tools?

Cut 6 pieces a 1/32" too long?

 

[Pancho]

sure would, but other than the novelty of making your own caps I thought it might be a better use for the kits. I'd sooner use the tubing.

 

[Macmac]

I never had a cap forming kit. Would you have a link to such a device? I'ld like to see one. I can see how a die and a punch driven will form the cap, but I wonder how you trim them?

I have a die that cuts silver, copper, and brass disks, which I can form into balls as beads almost perfectly round, and other shapes as well. These tools are from 1/8" to 3/4".

Perhaps I just answered my own question.

Maybe there is a series of dies, and punches, and you cut a disk to size first, and drive the cap into a forming die.

 

[Pancho]

I've never seen one outside of the catalogs. Never had the urge to buy one. I believe in making as much of your needs as you can but making caps is a little beyond me.

 

[102511]

You can use a piece of weed wacker line in the nipple to.

 

[Old Fuff]

I don't think it would take long for the hammer to beat up the aluminium cups to the point where they were useless. There are other solutions of course, but I've notice over a long time that a nipple that isn't there can't get the end of the cone battered.

 

[DuncanSA]

Old Fuff
You are quite right, as usual, in that a nipple that isn't there is not going to get battered. I was wondering about the shock of the hammer curve hitting the frame but this is probably irrelevant. When we fire a C&B revolver there is a substantial amount of "metal bashing" going on anyway.

So, if you want to "dry fire", simply take the nipples out. Right?

 

[Ed Ames]

The simple answer to frame bashing (and nipple bashing too) is to take a small amount of folded paper towel, or an o-ring of a diameter slightly larger than the hammer channel width, or a scrap of leather, or similar, and slip it down between the front of the hammer and the back of the frame. My preference is the o-ring but any will work. With that you can dry-fire away and there will be no metal-on-metal impact anywhere.

Ruger old armies were safe to dry fire without any special provision per the manual but unless you already have one or can buy used/old stock that's not much of a solution.

 

[DixieTexian]

I don't see how the aluminum would protect the nipple from peening. I real caps, you have a layer of stuff that softens the hammers blow. This layer of stuff then explodes, stopping the hammer from slamming down so hard on the nipple, while most of the explosion from the cap goes off to the sides and down the flash hole.

 

[Old Fuff]

So, if you want to "dry fire", simply take the nipples out. Right?

Well when you're live firing the hammer is either going to be stopped by the capped nipple, the nipple itself, or the frame. If you have shot your revolver very much and look, you'll usually find wear marks of the front face of the hammer, and inside the hammer slot in the area of where the butt end of the base pin is. Also check out the face of the hammer nose that's opposite the end of the nipple. It shouldn't be battered, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

To confess...

Sometimes I do remove the nipples if I am likely to do a lot of dry firing, especially when working on an action. Other times I simply remove the cylinder and fire away. That saves wear and tear on the cylinder bolt notches.

 

[Jim K]

The original guns were set up so the hammer stopped on the frame without actually touching the nipple. Very few repros are made that way. If dry firing is necessary, I vote for the use of leather or plastic between the hammer and frame.

Jim

 

[Old Fuff]

The original guns were set up so the hammer stopped on the frame without actually touching the nipple

Absolutely correct, and I set mine up that way.

If dry firing is necessary, I vote for the use of leather or plastic between the hammer and frame.

Which sometimes works, but if the padding is too thick the hammer may not fall far enough for the cam to pick up the tail of the bolt. Then the action will freeze unless the cylinder has been removed.

 

[Macmac]

Old Fuff, I'ld like to understand how to set up the hammer to stop on the frame. I'll have to some how flatten a live cap and mic it.. I bet that will be fun..

 

[Pancho]

The thought that all guns are set for the hammer to contact the frame before the nipple would be argued by what I saw at the counterguns of BassPro. I looked in detail at two such guns and the nipples needed replaced. Nothing much more to be said except to insist on a new set of nipples with counter guns.

 

[Old Fuff]

Old Fuff, I'ld like to understand how to set up the hammer to stop on the frame.

I charge $100,000.00 per hour for free advise...

Been hanging around too many attorneys.

If the hammer doesn't hit anything else, the frame will stop it.

Back when, at the Colt factory they didn't adjust either the frame or hammer, as both had been case hardened. Instead they had a least 2 sizes of nipples with different length cones. They would screw a long one into a chamber and check to see if the hammer was hitting it. If so they would unscrew that nipple and replace it with one with a shorter cone, then check again. One size usually worked. After that they would install nipples in the other chambers.

You're unlikely to find one, but genuine Colt nipples were stamped "Colt" and "Pat." on opposite sides of the wrench flat.

I am unaware of any replica revolvers that are consistently or even occasionally set up this way. I agree that in most, if not all cases, the hammer will hit the nipples. :banghead:

 

[Macmac]

$100,000.00 huh.... Can that be in peso's? What kind of clearance are we talking about?

It has to depend on how thick caps are and will still snap don't it? Contact is desirable to hit the frame and the cap, but not the nipple.. That just has to be a tuff call...

 

[Old Fuff]

Clearence often depends on the make and size of caps, plus you have some endshake in the cylinder. Thus you may have to experiment using different caps and a particular revolver.

In the past I have chickened out - coward that I am...

Install one nipple if the hammer is hitting the ones you have. Slowly shorten the cone until the hammer doesn't still hit the end, but does fire the cap. Measure that nipple and adjust the others to match.

Also, replica hammers and frames are usually not hardened, just colored to look like it. So minor adjustments can be made on either.

Is my $100,000.00 check in the mail???

 

[Macmac]

Well yeah but in peso's..

Yeah I like how soft the steel can be on parts that should be at least case hardened..

I wonder why some manufators don't harden and draw.. Good thing they are not making blades.. I make blades from time tio time and I harden mine...

I always have fun whittling down some blade made in pakistan. The carve easy.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well yeah but in peso's...

Good thing I'm close to the border...

I think that certain parts in C&B revolvers (as well as other kinds) aren't hardened because the maker is trying to come close to a price point.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the new USFA version of the Remington New Army - Model of 1863.

Also some folks think that pig iron makes great blades...

 

[dwave]

Just my little cents worth, but if you are not worried about a weight change and are just practicing pulling the trigger, why not just remove the cylinder and put some padding where the hammer hits the frame. Don't have to remove all the nipples then replace them.

 

[Sanjuro40]

The method mentioned by "Ed Ames" has worked great for me. It's simple, easy, and costs almost nothing.

The paper must be folded enough to keep the hammer off the nipples, but not so thickly folded as to prevent the next rotation of the cylinder.

Works great for me so far.

Respectfully,

Sanjuro

 

[DuncanSA]

Looks to me that the best bet would be to take the cylinder out and put some shock absorbing material between the frame and the hammer.

Does Macmac's cheque cover us all or does Old Fuff expect individual payment from each of us?

 

[DuncanSA]

Sorry dwave. I missed that you had already suggested this. obviously senility creeps on apace!

 

[Old Fuff]

The Old Fuff will go for whatever he can get. His friends (and others) have assured him that he WILL get what he has coming...