dry firing...any advantage

[Deanimator]

I stopped being a beliver in dry firing when I had my one and only ND doing it. Since then I've made a point of treating all firearms as loaded and just go to the range more often to get practice in.

Aside from the dangers, I really do question how useful it is. The dynamics of live fire, esp. with a handgun, are totally different from the dynamics of dry firing. Being good dry firing doesn't mean much when you add recoil, noise and the problems overcoming flinching.

The one ND I've had occurred during dry firing. It wasn't CAUSED by dry firing. It was caused by my own negligence. Negligence can happen anywhere. Don't think that it's less dangerous on the range than in your living room. Not paying attention has an infinite number of consequences that can happen anywhere.

The principles of dry firing and firing with ammunition are EXACTLY the same. Sight alignment, trigger control, etc. work in precisely the same way with the same firearm, whether it's loaded or not. If you don't believe me, combine the two by doing "ball and dummy" drills. Have somebody partially load a revolver for you. Shoot it and see if you have a flinch when you get to an empty chamber. The psycho-physiological mechanism of that flinch is EXACTLY the same, with or without ammunition. It's a violation of the fundamentals. The lack of recoil and muzzle blast make that deficit even more obvious.

I'm shooting a DA revolver league right now. I'm certainly not the best, but without a lot of dry firing, I pretty much guarantee I'd be among the worst. Everything I do wrong, I see in dry firing.

I'm in the Bullseye-L mailing list. Pretty much EVERY top level bullseye shooter I know dry fires.

 

[Cosmoline]

The one ND I've had occurred during dry firing. It wasn't CAUSED by dry firing. It was caused by my own negligence. Negligence can happen anywhere.

But you can't blow a hole in anything unless you point at it and pull the trigger. Unless it's done at a range or towards a mass of sandbags in the basement, dry firing is an inherent violation of the fundamental safety rules. You can go look at the threads on ND's and see how many of them took place while dry firing.

The psycho-physiological mechanism of that flinch is EXACTLY the same, with or without ammunition.

Only because you're expecting the thing to go "BOOM" when someone half-loads it for you. So no, the psycho mechanism is NOT the same when you're dry firing in the room and when you're firing what might be a live chamber at the range.

 

[Deanimator]

But you can't blow a hole in anything unless you point at it and pull the trigger. Unless it's done at a range or towards a mass of sandbags in the basement, dry firing is an inherent violation of the fundamental safety rules. You can go look at the threads on ND's and see how many of them took place while dry firing.

Then why do people shoot benches, gunboxes, walls, floors, ceilings, each other and themselves on ranges?

Dry firing is no more of an "inherent violation of the fundamental safety rules" than a gunsmith pulling the trigger of a cleared firearm to test its proper functioning before, during and after a repair.

They've completely remodeled, but I wish you could have seen the Gray's Armory range in downtown Cleveland when the Cleveland Metropolitan Housing Police used the facility. I don't think they were doing much dry friring, yet the walls. floor, ceiling, benches, target mechanisms, etc. looked like they'd been graced by the presence of a troop of MAC-10 toting baboons, liberally supplied with LSD and ammunition.

 

[Deanimator]

Only because you're expecting the thing to go "BOOM" when someone half-loads it for you. So no, the psycho mechanism is NOT the same when you're dry firing in the room and when you're firing what might be a live chamber at the range.

If somebody ELSE loads the revolver, how will you know WHEN it's going to go "BOOM"?

Fundamentals are fundamentals, loaded or not. You don't learn fundamentals without practice. I don't have my own indoor range available 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I CAN dryfire any time I want to when I'm at home. The more I do, the better I shoot.

If you don't want to dryfire because of perceived safety issues, that's fine by me. However, I differ with an opinion that flies so COMPLETELY in the face of those of virtually EVERY Master and High Master I've ever known. Nothing personal, but I think that if the guys who win year after year at Camp Perry dry fire, they may be onto something...

 

[444]

Dry firing is essential to graduating from a plinker to a serious shooter.
There are many fine details of shooting that you can perfect with dry firing that have almost nothing to do with live fire. However, IMO, this is only worthwhile if you understand what you are practicing. You need to be practicing the right way and not just ANY way. You need to understand what you are doing and know the fine details to look for in your technique; those are the things you are going to perfect in dry practice. Dry practice is about details. Small details are perfected in dry practice. For example: I have been taught that drawing a handgun from a holster is a five count exercise and not just a random act. Each one of these five steps is broken down and every detail practiced dry. For each one of those five counts you are doing something very specific. At each one of those five counts your hands are in a certain place. So, in the comfort of my own home, I practice that draw stroke slowly. Each draw is perfect. I don't care if it is fast, only that it is perfect. Each step is done with no extra motion. Each step brings the gun to the target in the most direct path....................... None of this requires firing shot. Recoil has absolutely nothing to do with it. Then in step five, as the gun is being thrust directly at the target, I am taking the slack out of the trigger. My eye picks up the front sight and only the front sight. When the crisp, sharp, clear front sight is in the COM of the somewhat blurry silhouette, the last tiny little bit of slack is taken from the trigger dry firing the weapon at the instant the sights are on the target. Again, no need for recoil and all that. As the shot breaks I follow through: the trigger is trapped to the rear and the front sight remains on the target for an instant so I can call my shot. The gun is reholstered in a very specific way etc. Done thousands upon thousands of time, this becomes muscle memory and hopefully will be done instictively if needed.
Rifle shooting positions are learned the same way. You learn to get into them as quickly as possible. You learn to get your natural point of aim toward the target without thinking about it etc. You don't need to fire a shot.
Then you get into malfunction clearences and reloads. Have someone load your gun with snap caps purposely with a malfunction while you arn't looking. They hand you the gun and you identify and clear the malfunction without looking based on the feel of the trigger. You practice your tactical reloads and get the muscle memory for that down.
Pretty much any aspect of shooting can be practiced without ever firing a shot.
I am sure someone will fill in the blanks on this, but within the last couple years, there was a guy from Japan that won some type of action pistol world championship in the US. It was his first match and he had never fired a live gun before in his life: that wouldn't be legal where he comes from. He did all his practice with an airsoft gun.

I have attended a couple of the big name shooting schools. The ones I have been to consider dry practice essential. They discuss dry practice techniques and safety. One of the schools I attend regularly considers dry practice more important than live fire. I tend to agree with them. They also incorportate a lot of dry practice in the actual classes. Every morning when you come to class the first thing they ask is how many people dry practiced last night.

 

[Cosmoline]

I have no objection to practicing with an airsoft gun or a special practice revolver with the pin removed. But you do it with functional iron, you takes your chances. Maybe there's only a .1% chance that you'll get distracted enough to forget to check, but if you do it enough that ends up being far too high a possibility of blowing a hole in something you did not intend to destroy.

 

[444]

Both of the schools I have been to give out a set of rules for dry practice to help minimize the chance of having an AD. I won't quote the whole thing but here are some of the highlights:

You dry practice in a specific location. Prior to beginning dry practice you unload the gun and yourself in another room in a specific container. In other words, you have a container in another room: when you begin dry practice you go to that other room and unload the gun. You put any loaded magazines or ammo in that container for the duration of your dry practice session. You never have live ammo in your possession while dry practicing. Next you set aside a specific time block for dry practice, 15 minutes or whatever. They recommed that if you are going to practice for more than 15 minutes that you break it down to 15 minute segments so your mind is sharp and focused on the task at hand. You do NOTHING else during this time period except dry practice. You don't answer the phone. You don't allow other family members to bother you during this time. You don't have the TV on or the radio on. For that 15 minutes (or whatever) you do nothing but dry practice. Then you dry practice on a specific target. Not the TV, not a light switch, not a framed picture: the target can not be a permenent part of your house. When you are finished dry practice, you put the target away. Obviously during dry practice you follow the basic gun safety rules: you are aware of your target and what is beyond it. You try to dry practice into something that will stop a round (again, NOT the TV etc). Not into the next hotel room or whatever. A masonary wall or something like that is desireable. If you don't have anything that will stop a round you don't dry practice into the direction of other people. Finally, when you are done you say aloud, "Dry Practice is Over (or something to that effect). At that point you NEVER under ANY circumstances decide to try one more draw or one more snap: dry practice is OVER. If you decide to continue, you go through the whole proceedure from step one on.
There is a good story about that last rule. If you haven't heard of Bill Jordon, look him up. He is one of the great pistol shooters of all time. He was dry firing in his office of the US Border Patrol. When he was done, he loaded his gun. As soon as he got done loading, the phone rang. He finished his conversation and said to himself, what was I doing ? Oh yeah, dry practicing. He fired a round through the office wall and killed a fellow officer. When you are done, you announce aloud that you are done and that is it.
Obviously there is more to it, but that is the basics.

 

[Cosmoline]

Those are excellent pointers for the practice, 444. I think a lot of us get into trouble by dry firing while talking on the phone, watching TV or whatever. A friend of mine was dry firing on the phone (she thought) when she capped off a round at a cabin cabinet. It just so happens that was the cabinet where ten extra propane containers were stowed! Thankfully only one of them blew up, and the escaped propane did not ignite. My own ND was a lot less dramatic, but no less terrifying. If you do it, be FORMAL about it.

 

[444]

For those of you that think these rules don't apply to you because you are too experienced, think again.
If Bill Jordon can have an AD and kill someone, it can happen to you. In addition, Jeff Cooper had an AD in the Palace Station Hotel here in Las Vegas during the SHOT show one year.
There are very few people that are more well known or more respected as shooters than those two. But, it happened to them. Like many things (cars, tools, fire, medications..............etc) Guns can be dangerous if not handled properly. If you are going to be dry practicing (and you should be dry practicing) then you need to do it RIGHT and forget the idea that these rules apply to everybody but you.
FWIW, I did a search for Bill Jordon and this link is just the first one that I saw but it serves to give you an idea of who we are talking about:http://www.taurususa.com/newsreviews/CBOH2003_000.cfm

 

[scullydog]

5 cents on the backstrap?

c'mon pharmer, this can't be done with my 637-2!

 

[BHPshooter]

There are some good answers here, but I haven't seen any that mention the one that I consider the most important: The "Zen" state.

Dry firing is what helps us (well, me at least) to get into that. When you have done enough of it to know what the gun should feel like when it operates, then you can apply that muscle memory to the actual act of shooting. Essentially it's playing a mindgame with yourself: My body knows that the gun will recoil and make noise, so it tries to make me flinch or close my eyes prematurely; However, thanks to dryfire practice, I can convince myself that every time I squeeze the trigger, nothing will happen.

I think that's why shooting can be considered a "discipline" rather than a simple skill -- there is more to shooting that just aiming and pressing the trigger, there is a large psychological aspect to it as well.

When I shoot well, there's just the target, the front sight, and the muscle memory I've earned with a lot of dry-firing. It makes all the difference.

Wes

 

[pharmer]

Sure you can Sdog, but it ain't easy. Joe

 

[Deanimator]

There are some good answers here, but I haven't seen any that mention the one that I consider the most important: The "Zen" state.

I didn't mention this, but it's a very good point with which I agree completely.

I used to practice the martial arts, and in fact shooting is one of them (Teppo Jutsu).

The same mental principles which underlie the unarmed martial arts and the weapons arts (kenjutsu, saijutsu, etc.) apply equally to use of a firearm.

The best shooters have the "shin no mushin", or "mind of no mind". They employ the shooting fundamentals in the same way that a sword master can draw, cut, and return his blade to the scabbard without having to think about the separate movements.

 

[GunFixer]

Dry firing, my opinion, helps you as far as holding the gun on target, especially in the case of DAO revolvers. This will train your hand and your finger the proper pull and hold for keeping your sight where it needs to be. Recoil management is another thing. For this you are just going to have to go out and shoot. Practice double taps and learn the best point for the follow up.