Dry firing?

[redneck]

I tried to do a search on it, but I got roughly 4 million threads to sift through....
So here goes, is it bad for Auto's/pistols in general to dry fire them (without snap caps)?
I've always heard that for rifles, especially .22's that the overtravel of the firing pin and stuff isn't good for them.

Reason I ask is that as I go around looking for my first handgun, every store I go to folks are dryfiring them like crazy. Shuck...click...shuck...click...shuck...click... over and over again. I can understand wanting to see what the trigger is like, and I can definitely see making a practice of NOT LOADING ANYTHING into the guns in the store for fear of some moron mixing them up.
Just wondering if this is something to keep in mind, like if they try to sell you the gun out of the display counter that 200 people a day are playing with?

Thanks

 

[lycanthrope]

No problem with most modern centerfire firearms, but dry firing is bad for rimfires and shotguns.

I dry fire my STI 2011 at least 50 times a day.........

 

[AZ Jeff]

MOST modern center fire self-loading pistols are just fine to dry-fire. M1911 pattern guns, and their close mechanical cousins (Hi-Powers, CZ-75's, etc., do not suffer from dry firing.

I would limit my dry firing on older stuff, especially striker fired stuff like Lugers, M1910/1922 Brownings, and the like.

On RIMFIRE pistols, it's more likely to find a design that does NOT tolerate being dry fired, for the reasons you noted in your original post. I do know, for a fact, that Ruger rimfire autoloading pistols are completely tolerant to dry firing, due to the design of the firing pin retaining pin. I cannot speak for other popular models such as the Beretta Neos, or the Browning Buckmark.

On older rimfire pistols, such as the Colt Woodsman or similar, I would again limit such dry firing.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I'll generally agree with the statement just made about dry firing: most centerfire are safe to dry fire, and most rimfires aren't...

But there are important exceptions:

As noted above, Ruger semi-auto rimfires are safe. (In fact, with the handguns, you've got to dry fire them during disassembly.) The pricey S&W rimfire Model 41, is also safe.

The "B" series CZs are NOT safe to dry fire. The firing pin retention roll pin in these guns can be damaged by repeated dry-firing. (CZ now sends snap caps with new guns.) I dry-fired a 75B Mil thousands of times without damage, but broke a retention roll pin in a 40B after a few hundred pulls. Others have had mixed experiences with dry-firing CZs -- some have problems, some don't. Why risk it? (The firing pin can be modifed, and CZ now installed a "doubled" roll pin that is more resistant to damage.

And I would argue that the CZ is not a close mechanical cousin to either the Hi-Power or the 1911. (And the 1911 and the HP are pretty different, too.) Not a lot in common in their designs, in fact, except a general "look" -- totally different internal mechanisms. The only thing the CZ has in common with the HP is a linkless Browning barrel lockup design-- but that's shared by about 75% of all modern semi-autos.

CZs are double-action and much, much more complex than a Browning. And the Browning is quite different from the 1911. I have all three and have detail-stripped them a number of times. Just compare the parts diagrams and you'll see what I mean. The HP is an elegantly simple gun; the CZ is not. The 1911 is somewhere in between.

The Beretta Tomcat is not safe to dry fire. A number of other "pricey" centerfire guns are not. (I broke two FIRING PINS on a Tomcat while USING a snap cap!) And don't dry fire a CZ-52 unless you've upgraded to a different firing pin -- but almost everyone who owns one of those knows about that.

The best rule is "Read the owner's manual." If you don't have one, you can generally get one from the manufacturer or from a site on the web. If that isn't possible, ask here about a SPECIFIC model.

 

[AZ Jeff]

Walt,

When I said the CZ, HiPower and M1911 were close mechanical cousins, I based it on two assumptions:

1. the firing pin, firing pin spring, firing pin stop, and hammer function essentially the same in all three designs. Based on your observations, my statement obviously ONLY applies to a CZ-75 "A", and NOT the "B" versions.
2. I was EXCLUDING the actual trigger bar/sear actuation system, as I realize they are vastly different in all three arms.

I guess I should have been more specific. You know what the old adage is about "assumptions".

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Understood.

You're right -- they have similar inertial firing pin systems.

So did that darned Beretta Tomcat <sigh>. That gun's firing pin struck with SUCH FORCE that it cratered snap caps far more quickly than I realized. Hence, two new firing pins and trips to the factory: they wouldn't send me replacement pins.

 

[redneck]

Thanks guys
Sounds like, its an only an issue if I pick certain guns. Most likely going to get a Ruger P89,90, or a 1911 of some sort, so I guess I'll be alright. Berrata 92's are look interesting too, haven't found one to look at yet though.

 

[WVleo]

dry-firing

Hi, So Walt , would it be OK to dry-fire a CZ40B with the factory snap cap ?...............WVleo

 

[Walt Sherrill]

For a while. Get a better quality snap cap -- or get a doubled roll pin from CZ, or get the modified firing pin from JR Farrar.

The factory-supplied snap cap is cheap plastic and won't last long if you do much dry firing. The modified firing pin works -- I had one in my CZ-40B, and you can just replace a broken roll pin with one from the local hardward store cut to length with a Dremel.

www.jrfarrar.com

 

[Standing Wolf]

Dummy rounds are cheaper than parts and gunsmithing.

 

[Treylis]

Speaking of CZs, do NOT dry-fire CZ-52s without snap-caps. It's very easy to break the firing pin that way.