Dry Firing

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mikemyers

mikemyers

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Having been dry-firing my revolver many/most days of the week, for 15 or 20 minutes a day, I have certainly noticed an improvement when I get to the range. Lots of books talk about this. Recently I started to think that what all dry-firing really is, is "an exercise". Once I thought of it as exercise, I remembered the way many people organize exercise sessions.....


I love computers, and smart phones, and I got to wondering if I could organize my dry-firing. I found one answer, but I'm not sure how many people in this forum will like it - if you like working with your smart phone, it's very easy - just download an "Exercise App".

There are many "exercise" apps that you can download. They tell you to start exercising, then to stop, and after a break they tell you to start up again. Many of them allow you to select how many cycles you want, how long each part of the cycle would be, and so on.

I've got an Android phone, and after looking over a lot of choices, I picked "Impetus". It's free, and seems to do just what I want. Here's a link:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fi.ohra.impetus&hl=en

They have many pre-configured choices, or you can create your own. I picked one that they called "30-30 Circuit". Here's how it works
  • You start the app, and you get a count-down timer of five seconds, during which you put down the phone and pick up your gun. The name for this is "Prep".
  • Next stage is "Work", which will last for 30 seconds, during which you dry-fire. There is a countdown, and it beeps before the period eds.
  • Next stage is "Rest" which gives you 30 seconds to relax your hand - and again, a few seconds before it goes back to the "Work" cycle, it beeps.
  • This continues, over and over and over and over, for 20 cycles (or whatever you want to set it to).

For me, the app is nice in that I can clear my mind of anything else, and simply start and stop dry-firing during that period. In the 30 seconds of "Work", I usually get off 7 shots. That means after 20 cycles, I'd have dry-fired the gun 140 times. I know from doing this, that my hands start getting tired by the time the "work" cycle completes.

This app does absolutely nothing that you couldn't do by yourself, without the app and phone. I'm lazy though, and with the phone taking care of the details, the ONLY thing I get to be concerned with is holding the gun as steady as possible during the shooting cycle. I know from experience that the more you dry-fire, the better you do at the range - you develop good habits, and that's what you naturally do when firing for real. Before the app, I'd get bored, and figure I already did this long enough. With the app, I tend to finish all the 20 cycles.


I figured I'd pass this on for anyone who might enjoy trying it. For me at least, it makes dry-firing a little more fun, and I won't stop early, as I sometimes did before.....
 
I do much the same thing at the range but without the beeps. I use a .22 handgun instead of dry firing. The holes in the target provide my feedback on how I'm doing. And best of all it's fun too boot! ! ! !

As Potatohead suggested in the other thread we're getting seriously close to over analyzing this whole thing. Perhaps step back and ask yourself why you're doing all this. Is it to get good at it so you can potentially save your life when attacked or is it for range fun.

If it's for range fun and personal improvement then it's time to step back from the OCD pond and try drinking some basic FUN water.

As for the OCD issue I ask you, how many posts have you made in the last month about all these issues? To the answer I say lighten up a little and undo the laces on the corset a bit. You WILL get there. It just doesn't need to be within the next week. Or even in the next month.

It's good to want to get better. But don't get to where you're obsessed with it. ESPECIALLY since from the information in your other thread that you are already doing pretty darn good on a regular basis.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
Huh. My old watch had an app for this, too...only it was called an "alarm". :)
Click to expand...


I'm retired too, and my old watches that I still have didn't and don't have alarms. I think I know what you mean, and yeah, a month ago I was just watching a clock as I dry fired, but I didn't have enough patience, and didn't enjoy doing it that way. (I kept at it anyway, as the more I dry-fired, the smaller my groups got!!!)

Seriously though - the people I know who are/were into body building said if you wanted to do it right, you need to follow a routine, and stick with it. From the internet:

"There is often a lot of confusion about just what routine to follow when trying to build muscle. There are several options that people can choose from and just about all of them will work. The real question is which one will work best for you and your starting point."​


To my way of thinking, what's the difference between trying to build up the muscles in my hands/arms, or building up body muscles in a gym? What I posted here seems to work the best for me, but I doubt if many people on THR will even try it, but if someone does happen to have an Android smartphone, *and* wants to improve their shooting by dry-firing, why not follow the routine on a daily or weekly basis, depending on how quickly you want to improve?

I suspect the best way to get better is to do what the guys did in the old days, and fire off hundreds of thousands of live rounds. Problem for me, is even that I now have the time, as I'm retired, I could never afford it. :-(
 
Please pardon my ignorance,but I thought dry firing a weapon was "bad for it" supposed to be hard on the inner workings /firing pin? have I been mis informed?
 
Most all modern center fire guns are safe to do so.

Even a few rimfires.

You can always use snap caps, o rings, drywall anchors, or fired cases too.
 
If you've got a '22, chances are you never want to dry-fire it. Most everyone agrees that it's not only safe to fire center-fire revolvers, but it helps the gun get smoother by internally polishing the parts as they wear against each other.

On the other hand, in the S&W Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen (the book that people here suggested I buy, if I wanted to really understand the gun), on page #6 says:

"DON'T dry fire any revolver without snap caps."​

After reading that, I bought snap caps.
 
mikemyers said:
If you've got a '22, chances are you never want to dry-fire it. Most everyone agrees that it's not only safe to fire center-fire revolvers, but it helps the gun get smoother by internally polishing the parts as they wear against each other.

On the other hand, in the S&W Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen (the book that people here suggested I buy, if I wanted to really understand the gun), on page #6 says:

"DON'T dry fire any revolver without snap caps."​

After reading that, I bought snap caps.
Click to expand...

But if you read the SW Owners Manual it says it is fine to dry fire a center fire handgun.

Obsessive dry firing does not substitute for a good trigger job, Many folks dry fire wil watching TV, it may loosen up the trigger a bit but is not gonna substantially change it.

Yes, Potato, dry wall anchors (I forget which color/size will fit a 22 revolver fine for snap caps.

I do one finger (trigger) push ups to develop my shooting finger.:neener:
 
Suggestion: more information can be found here:

Suggestion: good advice can be found here:

So far, 'Old Fuff' has never suggested anything that didn't sound like excellent advice, so while I feel it would probably be fine to dry fire without them, after reading Jerry's book, and the explanations here, I bought a set. The cost of snap caps is nothing compared to the possible cost of replacement parts.
 
Dry wall anchors?
Click to expand...

Potatohead, yellow drywall anchors (can't remember the size, but I think it's size 2 or 4) are the same size as .22LR cartridges. They even have a rim, and will manually cycle in many autoloaders.

They can be used as snap-caps in rimfire guns, but should be rotated, then replaced, periodically, as the soft plastic is flattened by the firing pin and then offers less cushion for it (this also applies to spent cases being so used.)
 
I thought dry firing a weapon was "bad for it" supposed to be hard on the inner workings /firing pin? have I been mis informed?
Click to expand...

Not really misinformed, just not updated. It probably was not a good idea on most guns years ago, but most modern guns are OK with it. I would limit the amount with revolvers with hammer mounted firing pins. Or at least use snap caps. Same with many shotguns, especially doubles. Some 22's are OK, some not, check the owners manual. Of the 50+ guns I own only one is not OK with dry firing and that is my Kel-Tec P3AT.

I have one Rem 700 that is 40 years old that has to have been dry fired at least 100,000 times. I sit at my desk and dry fire out the window of my home office into a wooded area at birds, squirrels etc. for several minutes 2-3 days a week. It is great practice for hunting season.
 
mikemyers said:
Suggestion: more information can be found here:

Suggestion: good advice can be found here:

So far, 'Old Fuff' has never suggested anything that didn't sound like excellent advice, so while I feel it would probably be fine to dry fire without them, after reading Jerry's book, and the explanations here, I bought a set. The cost of snap caps is nothing compared to the possible cost of replacement parts.
Click to expand...

Well there is occasional dry firing and OCD dry firing. If you sit around the house all day and night and dry fire your gun then no, that is not a good thing to do. Find another hobby.;)
 
Every time this comes up, I'm reminded of an old Dilbert cartoon.

http://search.dilbert.com/comic/Q-tip

Even in guns that can be safely dryfired, it's important to remember that there's a difference between a few dryfires and hundreds of dryfires a week.

It is, of course, also safe to shoot a firearm with live ammo without the expectation of damage to the gun. But that doesn't mean it will never wear out, even if you shoot it hundreds of times a week.
 
Rule3 said:
Well there is occasional dry firing and OCD dry firing. If you sit around the house all day and night and dry fire your gun then no, that is not a good thing to do. Find another hobby.;)
Click to expand...


Copied from this page:

Throughout the years I’ve had the opportunity to pick the brains of numerous firearms trainers and professional shooters regarding the most effective ways to train humans to use guns. Of these pro shooters Max Michel and Todd Jarrett come immediately to mind. When considering dry-fire both the aforementioned men, who make their living with a gun in hand, commented that they started their careers with weekly practice routines that included one, two, and sometimes three hours a day of dry-fire, five to six days a week, continuing for several years. ........ During my career as a Marine and military instructor I’ve spent enough time with Special Operations troops to know that they dry-fire and rehearse religiously. One SF troop put it bluntly to me, “…the difference between a good shooter and a great shooter is how much dry-fire they do.”
​

If interested, click the link below that, to continue reading; there's a lot more.

I guess if all you want to do is make noise, and fire a gun, there's no point to wasting all that time dry-firing, but if you're serious, and want to get good, that apparently is part of the cost. ......just like most things in life.
 
Trigger pull

I'm trying to practice my trigger pull more often not just for neuromuscular training, but for pure strengthening. I've only been out on the range 7x (1-2x/week) with my new XDs and my aim has progressively improved. I think it's due to improved strength in my wrist and hand. I tried out more rest time between shots this last time out and had about a 1-2" improvement in the average shot. Are there any other wrist/hand exercises I should add to a regimen instead of just dry firing?
 
Just to be clear, I'm not arguing against dryfiring. I try to do some dryfire exercises daily. But I also understand that a significant amount dryfiring will result in wear (and possibly eventual damage) to the internal parts of the gun and therefore I do what I can to minimize the wear & tear.

Someone who is dryfiring once in awhile probably doesn't need to take such precautions, but someone who's putting forth some real effort in dryfire practice is well-advised to do so.

A lot of folks seem to think that because a gun is safe to dryfire that they can dryfire to their heart's content with no expectation whatsoever of wear or eventual damage to their firearm. That's not realistic. I've got one gun that I have dryfired so much that there's enough wear in the trigger linkage I had to retire it from dryfire work. Eventually I'm probably going to have to do some remedial work on it.

And yes, dryfire really does wonders for trigger technique in addition to conditioning one's trigger finger--IF DONE CORRECTLY.
 
Of these pro shooters Max Michel and Todd Jarrett come immediately to mind. When considering dry-fire both the aforementioned men, who make their living with a gun in hand, commented that they started their careers with weekly practice routines that included one, two, and sometimes three hours a day of dry-fire, five to six days a week, continuing for several years. ........
Click to expand...

Just to clarify...There's "dry fire" to improve trigger control, and there's "dry fire" to improve gun handling and rapid sight acquisition. Those daily dry fire sessions done by Run-n-Gun shooters (e.g. Michel & Jarrett) are generally the latter type. There are dry fire books available for USPSA/IDPA shooters, and actually pulling the trigger in most of those drills is optional and often not practical.

Still, for the revolver shooter looking to improve their control, the former type is very valuable. Me? I've generally not used snap caps, but frame-mounted FPs are easy to replace if they break. And after tens of thousands of snap cap-less dry fire, I did break one FP.

OTOH, I have a sweet & smooth model 65 with a hammer-mounted FP that I wouldn't dream of exposing to such treatment.
 
Actually, moving the trigger is fairly easy. Holding the gun at arms length ... hard.

I would suggest holding a weight 1-2x the fully loaded guns weight. Can be done with a book, barbell, anything. And it can be done anywhere without scaring the sheeple. Hold it steady, sight down the spine of the book but only hold it until you start to feel shaky. The lower, relax, repeat.
 
amanda said:
I'm trying to practice my trigger pull more often not just for neuromuscular training, but for pure strengthening. I've only been out on the range 7x (1-2x/week) with my new XDs and my aim has progressively improved. I think it's due to improved strength in my wrist and hand. I tried out more rest time between shots this last time out and had about a 1-2" improvement in the average shot. Are there any other wrist/hand exercises I should add to a regimen instead of just dry firing?
Click to expand...

Kind of hard to dry fire a striker fired gun:D You will be doing a lot of slide racking as well.

Just get some of those hand exercise clamp things or a rubber ball . Be surprised how hard it is to keep up doing it. It will strengthen you whole hand and fingers.
 
john_bud said:
.......Hold it steady, sight .....but only hold it until you start to feel shaky. The lower, relax, repeat.
Click to expand...


Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I figure as long as I'm holding something up, why not the gun, and when it does start to feel shaky, I force myself to hold it longer. I figure if I keep doing that, I'll eventually be able to hold it longer and longer. If I put it down as soon as my arm starts to feel shaky, I don't think my arms will get stronger as quickly as if I force myself to go further. .....if in fact, I do get stronger, and can hold the gun up longer, I'm hoping that I will be more steady when I fire normally.

(With the Android program settings posted above, my arms and hand are definitely ready for a rest at the end of the 20 minute session!!!)
 
dry firing a weapon

Dry firing has evolved over the decades, I should know, you were told never to dry fire a weapon, specifically old S&W's Revolvers because all pistols back then, that everyone owned were S&W's Revolvers with the hammer containing the firing pin on the end of the hammer. This was the reason "Never Dry Fire a Weapon" was because the hammer with the pin extrusion would/could break and therefore make the revolver useless.
 
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