Dumb Blackhawk questions

[Janitor]

Ok. I've looked and not really found the answers yet. Of course - may need to work on the search skills too.

First question is mostly curiosity. Does anyeone know what the differences (other than cosmetic) are between the '50th Anniversery New Model Blackhawk' and a 'New Model Blackhawk'? The Ruger catalog lists the 50th Anniversery model with it's 4 5/8" barrel as weighing 5oz more than the .357, 4 5/8" Blackhawk.

Second question - if I were to pick up a New Model Blackhawk in .45 Colt, would it be possible to add a .45 ACP cylinder later on, or do you need to buy the convertable to start with?

Thanks.
/j

 

[Majic]

The anniversary model (a .44 by the way) has a 6 1/2" barrel. It also has the old gripframe, hard rubber grips, and the reverse indexing pawl.
A lot of Rugers will allow a drop in fit of other cylinders, but it should be timed to that revolver. Ruger may not do it as their custom is not to do anything to their product that didn't come from the factory for that firearm. They don't have a custom shop. Other gunsmiths can do it fairly easily. It may be simplier to just buy a convertable.

 

[Janitor]

The anniversary model (a .44 by the way) has a 6 1/2" barrel. It also has the old gripframe, hard rubber grips, and the reverse indexing pawl

Hmmm - The Ruger catalog I have at home lists the anniversery model as a .357 w/ a 4 5/8" barrel. And I can see now that their web site lists a ".44 magnum New Model Blackhawk". Strange.

So I can take it that the 'standard' new model Blackhawk doesn't have the reverse indexing pawl? Please 'scuze the ignorance - I've never had a single action revolver before. But what is a reverse indexing pawl? Does it have to do with the reloading process?

Good point about the timeing on the cylinders. I'll just hold out for the convertable in that case. Makes sense.

Thanks for the response.

/j

 

[loadedround]

To help you with your decision, it is possible to install a 45ACP cylinder in your Ruger 45 Colt. I have done two myself, one was drop in without any fitting and the other 45ACP cylinder was slightly long on the front bearing surface and took about a 1/2 hour of stoning and fitting for it to fuction properly. Timing was perfect on both cylinders. FYI: The 45ACP cylinders I see for auction on eBay are selling for over $100.00 now so it might pay to buy a conversion model if available.

 

[loadedround]

Janitor, as far as I am concerned, there are no dumb questions when someone desires an answer. The only dumb question is the one not asked. Remember we were all not born experts and had to learn from someone by asking questions also.

 

[Jim Watson]

The Ruger .357 Anniversary Model is built on a frame similar in size to the original 1950s guns, and not much larger than a Colt, which is why it weighs 5 oz less than a .357 New Model, which is on the .44/.45 frame.

The "reverse indexing pawl" is to correct a flaw in the New Model design.
When you load a Colt SAA or Old Model Ruger, you put the hammer in half cock, open the gate, turn the cylinder until the hand clicks, and you will find a chamber in line with the gate to be loaded or unloaded.
Opening the gate on a New Model disconnects the hammer so it doesn't have a half cock to be manually set, but if you roll the cylinder until it clicks, the chamber will have gone past the loading gate. You have to visually align the chambers with the gate to load.
The "reverse indexing pawl" detents the cylinder with chambers in line with the loading gate so you can reload by feel like a real SAA.

As said Ruger does not add conversion cylinders. Either buy a Convertible or figure on paying a good deal for a loose cylinder and paying to have it fitted.

 

[Tom C.]

I have had Ruger fit .45 ACP cylinders to 4 Blackhawks over the last 5 years, the most recent one being Jan of this year. Recently I cycled them all through a gunsmith and had the .45 ACP cylinders trimmed to use .45 AR brass. I load the .45 AR on my Dillon 550 using the same die set I use for .45 ACP, but with a .45 AR shell plate. .45 AR brass headspaces on the rim and is more consistent than .45 ACP. The .45 ACP reloads seem to vary in length too much for consistent ignition in a revolver not headspacing with moon clips.

 

[gazpacho]

Doesn't the anniversary frame have a problem using Ruger Only 45 Colt loads? I seem to remember that the latest runs of Vaqueros have that restriction as well.

Anyone who can clarify this question would be greatly appreciated.

 

[xring44]

I have a new model blackhawk in .45 ACP, it originally came with the .45 colt cylinder as well but was lost according to the original owner. I called Ruger about a replacement cylinder in .45 colt, I was told it must be fitted to the revolver and timed, OK, No problem other than the cost, $130.00 plus shipping both ways. Time, don't send it until July.....I'm waiting until late june I suppose, I really like this single action, a bit rare also in the 7 1/2" barrel I believe.
The gentleman who had the work done to use auto rims, My experence with Auto rims are the case walls are much thinner than the standard .45 ACPs. I have had two failures to fire in about 1000 rounds of mixed "range brass" untrimed. They are fun guns to shoot.

 

[edwardyoung]

The Anniv blackhawk has a steel gripframe, while the regular Blackhawk has an aluminum one.

 

[foghornl]

The 50th Year Blackhawk is also like the original "Flat-Top" models, i.e. no groove or protective ears for the rear sight.

I have a 'Sheriffs Model' Vaquero and a 50th Year Blackhawk, both in .357 Mag. The Blackhawk is only a fraction longer than the Vaquero, in spite of having a 4-5/8" barrel vs. the 3-3/4" barrel on the Vaquero.

I took the cylinders out of both, and put them side-by-side. (sorry, don't have a pic) The Vaquero cylinder is longer. I put the same ammo in both, and the Vaquero cylinder had more distance between the nose of the bullet and the cylinder edge than the Blackhawk cylinder.

The Blackhawk also has a smaller grip frame than the Vaquero. Blackhawk has the (IIRC) XR-3 grip.

 

[Jim March]

The 50th anniversary Blackhawk in 357 is built on the new mid-size frame, same as the New Vaquero except with adjustable sights. Other than sights, that gun is parts compatible with the New Vaq in every respect.

That 50th Blackhawk 357 is only chambered in 357Magnum. It is a "close recreation" of the original Ruger 357Mag Blackhawk of...I think 1956 but I could be wrong. Except of course the new gun has a transfer bar.

The New Vaq on the same frame is chambered in 357 and 45LC. In 45LC, you get a gun that's perhaps slightly stronger than a Colt SAA but not by THAT much; you can't feed that gun "giant killer" 45LC+P made for the larger-frame Rugers in 45LC built on the 44Mag-grade frame.

If you have a 357 50th Blackhawk and need, say, a Belt Mountain base pin, you order one for the New Vaq. Ditto replacement cylinders, various springs, grip panels, etc.

The 50th Anniversary 44Mag Blackhawk is a "close recreation" of Ruger's SECOND 44Mag gun, not their first. The new 50th Anniversary Blackhawk in 44Mag is of course built on the bigger 44Mag frame. It is capable of eating anything you can feed a SuperBlackhawk, and if re-chambered and barreled to 45LC it can eat the "Ruger ONLY" 45LC+P monster loads no problem.

Ruger's first 44Mag (1958 I think?) was built on the 357 Blackhawk frame and just wasn't strong enough; Ruger rapidly built a second larger frame size known as the SuperBlackhawk. By 1973 that bigger frame (now with transfer bar) became the basis of all the Blackhawks, SuperBlackhawks and later the Vaquero, which is why 357Mag guns of that era could be upgraded to 44Mag with no problems. Those guns were "oversize for their caliber and power needs" in the eyes of Cowboy Action Shooters and others.

(It's barely possible that the "Microsight flattop topstrap" isn't as strong as the "eared" topstrap of the normal New Model Blackhawk/SuperBlackhawk family but the difference will be minimal. I don't think I'd upgrade this newest 44Mag "flattop" to something like 454Casull with a custom 5-shot cylinder but in 44Mag/45LC you're unlikely to find any difference if there is any...)

 

[Jim March]

This pic illustrates some compatibility issues:

This is a New Vaq in 357Mag, has the new mid-size frame, but a surprising number of parts from the larger New Model 44Mag-size frame fits it. In this case a completely unmodified SuperBlackhawk hammer dropped right in. I'm told so will pawls and triggers, and a Bisley setup (complete with grip frame if you wanted) will bolt in. If you switch to any grip frame other than stock you have to swap mainsprings, mainspring struts and the mainspring keeper, and this will eliminate the keylock...which some gunsmiths won't do.

A lot of other internal parts and screws are also a cross-fit, but NOT base pins or mainsprings. The base pin varies because of the shorter cylinder and the mainspring has to accomodate that weird internal "inside the grip" keyswitch.

My gun pictured has full custom sights that are windage adjustable and have been vertically dialled in and milled for 135gr loads. The sight picture is much more like a Blackhawk than a Vaquero and this gun is SO not SASS-legal .

 

[Janitor]

Thanks for all the answers!

Jim - ultimatly, I was wanting to pick up a new model Blackhawk .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertable. Will I have to watch maximum load levels with the 'standard' new model Blackhawk?

I'm not married to getting the .45 ACP capability - it just would have been nice. But my 625 handles that for me rather well anyway. I'd rather be able to use 'full house' .45 +P Colt in the Ruger. Do I need to find a Super Blackhawk in .45 Colt?

Thanks.

/j

 

[Jim March]

The New Model Blackhawks in 45LC that ship from the factory SO FAR are all built on the 44Mag frame dating to 1973 ("SuperBlackhawk" frame but with transfer bar).

That could change if a gun like the New Vaq in 45LC was ever built with factory adjustable sights but so far that hasn't happened. The New Vaq in 45LC remains the only Ruger 45LC not able to handle "Ruger ONLY!!!" monster loads.

 

[Janitor]

That's good news. Thanks much Jim.

/j