"Dynamic entry" good for police, bad for civilians.

[F4GIB]

OK Art, here's the thread.

Originally posted in Legal and Political.

They were serving a search warrant not an arrest warrant. The information they had said the drugs, money and book keeping records were at his home,

Then why do it when he was home?

Why do it at 6:00 AM when he's likely to be sleepy and not in any condition to make a good judgement (knowing he could be armed)?

Perhaps because it's more convenient for the officers.

(1) If they find anything, they can arrest him (and not have to try and catch him at work or on the road) and they can proceed to search the rest of the house "incident to an arrest" (probably broadening the scope of their authorized searching).

(2) They believe that catching the occupants while "groggy and unalert" is safer for the officers (but, as this case shows, not necessarily for the less valuable civilians involved).

But, what really sets us civilians off is this fact:

I can't think of any simple [MJ] possession charge that [carries] a capital penalty. Ergo, perhaps in such cases it would not be unreasonable to try [to] avoid using enforcement techniques which make it MORE "probable" that somebody might DIE in the service of the warrant.

I've never seen a speck of evidence that "dynamic entries" are safer for the civilians involved. There seems to be lots of instances where they have proved to be unreasonably dangerous to innocent 11-year olds, 87-year olds, and sleepy occupants.

The POLICY question relates to when dynamic entry (not in itself an illegitimate technique) should be used. It is too dangerous to civilians to be allowed to become the normal way of doing police business.

The instance in Florida last week (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=150372&page=1&pp=25) was not a case where it was necessary. There was no need to serve the SEARCH warrant when anyone was home. There was no need to put anyone in danger. The police could have avoided any personal risk TO THEM without creating the risk to THE OCCUPANTS that dynamic entry always entails.

 

[vrwc]

I would even go so far to say that dynamic entry is not good for the poilice as well.

A department I know would not even breach on an arrest warrant if the door was not opened. Time was on our side nobody stays in there house 24x7. I only remember being refused entry a few times on a search warrant. And once they knew we were not going away they relented, nobody was shot, everyone went home safe


I am not saying that there should be no dynamic entries but that they should be very very rare.

 

[Bill2k1]

to get a no knock is rare and you usually have to prove a high risk level. The idea of going in at 6AM is that most people who are less then wholesome are most likely up late doing whatever and you will reach them before alertness. A good fast breech should be able to get everyone before the people are awake enough to do much.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

A good fast breech should be able to get everyone before the people are awake enough to do much.

Is that a direct quote or just a paraphrase of Heinrich Himmler ?

 

[chopinbloc]

it is my uneducated opinion that no-nock warrants are being performed to prevent the destruction or disposal of evidence. i'm not sure when it happened but is seems that today it is okay to risk human life to avoid someone flushing the evidence of a non-violent, victimless crime.
<tinfoil hat> perhaps this has something to do with the fact that as we acclimatize the public to scenes of heavily armed, psuedo military types smashing in doors, they are less likely to resist. today a coke dealer, tomorrow a child porn distributor, next week it'll be paladin press. </tinfoil hat>

a no-knock warrant should not be issued to preserve evidence, but to preserve life. not leo life, either, they can preserve their life by setting up a perimeter and using cover, not to mention select fire weapons and explosives, body armor, etc. the no-knock warrant should be issued to avoid the likelihood of a hostage standoff, nothing else. if the suspect flushes drugs, well, tough, better luck (and better police work) next time, buddy.

 

[beerslurpy]

Is that a direct quote or just a paraphrase of Heinrich Himmler ?

*dead* Sorry, that was just too funny.

 

[Jeff White]

We don't discuss politics here and we also don't get into specific TTPs for OPSEC reasons...Closed

Jeff